Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 2022 Aug 04, 00:13
- Location: Mesa, AZ
- Vehicle Information: 87 Bronco FSB Eddie Bauer w/ 89 Mustang MAF Swap / C3W PCM w/ A9L2 BIN from Decipha / 347 FRPP BOSS Block (Part# M-6009-347) / AFR 165cc heads / 42Lbs Green(Active) & 30Lbs Red(Shelf) Bosch Injectors / CompCams 35-510-8/FW XE258HR-12 / AOD fully beefed up / King 2.5" Suspension w/ Bump Stops / 5.13 Gears Front/Rear on Auburn Pro LSD / 35"(Active)/33"/37" Tires / Very Custom Built Bronco aka Bonnie
Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
If I set MAF table for Kg/Hr incrementally from 1-29 (zero will be zero still) so basically it increments but wouldn't really put any amount of fuel in.... Would this be a safe/effective way to crank the engine over and purge the fuel in the cylinders from it being flooded?
Cause of the Flooding:
This has happened a few times before when I first had to build my MAF table from scratch and a couple times doin some other work like on the transmission. It happens when I run the engine for just a few seconds to make sure something works, and do this a couple/few times. Then I'm good and ready to run it and I go to start but it stumbles a bit. If I'm quick and tap the pedal it will fire and run but if I miss it, I flood the engine and have to pull the spark plugs to dry things out. It's worse when it's cold out. This process takes a few hours, sometimes a few days but once it fires up and I let it run for at least a minute or so it won't have an issue starting after that.
While the issue is present, IF I can get it to fire while cranking, it will also be a huge puff of smoke and my garage is filled with a VERY rich fuel smell. After that if I try cranking again, it's def game over and floods it worse. If I put a high power fan on to clear the fuel in the air and wait a bit I can crank and almost get it to start again but this is where it either will fire up OR flood it again...
SO I figure maybe if I just set the MAF as I was thinkin in my ?, maybe I can clear it that way vs. pull the spark plugs and wait for the fuel in the large cylinders to evaporate from the tiny spark plug port....
Gonna give this a try probably anyways but a thumbs up or "you're a f'in idiot" wouldn't hurt ;)
Cause of the Flooding:
This has happened a few times before when I first had to build my MAF table from scratch and a couple times doin some other work like on the transmission. It happens when I run the engine for just a few seconds to make sure something works, and do this a couple/few times. Then I'm good and ready to run it and I go to start but it stumbles a bit. If I'm quick and tap the pedal it will fire and run but if I miss it, I flood the engine and have to pull the spark plugs to dry things out. It's worse when it's cold out. This process takes a few hours, sometimes a few days but once it fires up and I let it run for at least a minute or so it won't have an issue starting after that.
While the issue is present, IF I can get it to fire while cranking, it will also be a huge puff of smoke and my garage is filled with a VERY rich fuel smell. After that if I try cranking again, it's def game over and floods it worse. If I put a high power fan on to clear the fuel in the air and wait a bit I can crank and almost get it to start again but this is where it either will fire up OR flood it again...
SO I figure maybe if I just set the MAF as I was thinkin in my ?, maybe I can clear it that way vs. pull the spark plugs and wait for the fuel in the large cylinders to evaporate from the tiny spark plug port....
Gonna give this a try probably anyways but a thumbs up or "you're a f'in idiot" wouldn't hurt ;)
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 2022 Aug 04, 00:13
- Location: Mesa, AZ
- Vehicle Information: 87 Bronco FSB Eddie Bauer w/ 89 Mustang MAF Swap / C3W PCM w/ A9L2 BIN from Decipha / 347 FRPP BOSS Block (Part# M-6009-347) / AFR 165cc heads / 42Lbs Green(Active) & 30Lbs Red(Shelf) Bosch Injectors / CompCams 35-510-8/FW XE258HR-12 / AOD fully beefed up / King 2.5" Suspension w/ Bump Stops / 5.13 Gears Front/Rear on Auburn Pro LSD / 35"(Active)/33"/37" Tires / Very Custom Built Bronco aka Bonnie
Re: Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
Once the conversion takes place, this is how my MAF table ended up w/ the incremental 1-29 but still valid:
0 0.0
50 0.9
75 1.8
100 3.2
125 4.1
150 5.0
175 5.9
200 6.8
225 8.2
250 9.1
275 10.0
300 10.9
325 11.8
350 13.2
375 14.1
400 15.0
425 15.9
450 16.8
475 18.2
500 19.1
525 20.0
550 20.9
575 21.8
600 23.2
650 24.1
700 25.0
750 25.9
800 26.8
900 28.2
1023 29.1
0 0.0
50 0.9
75 1.8
100 3.2
125 4.1
150 5.0
175 5.9
200 6.8
225 8.2
250 9.1
275 10.0
300 10.9
325 11.8
350 13.2
375 14.1
400 15.0
425 15.9
450 16.8
475 18.2
500 19.1
525 20.0
550 20.9
575 21.8
600 23.2
650 24.1
700 25.0
750 25.9
800 26.8
900 28.2
1023 29.1
-
- Posts: 5385
- Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
- Location: Metairie, LA
- Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L
Re: Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
no need
simply hold the pedal to the floor while cranking and it shuts off the injectors
and btw you dont have to change all the maf points just the second from the top
change 900 in your example to 0. then set the flows for that and the one above stupid low like you want.
example
1023 30
0 20
850 xxxxx unchanged and unused
btw you show your values inverted.
Also my crank pw code in gufx shuts the injectors off during excessive cranking regardless.
simply hold the pedal to the floor while cranking and it shuts off the injectors
and btw you dont have to change all the maf points just the second from the top
change 900 in your example to 0. then set the flows for that and the one above stupid low like you want.
example
1023 30
0 20
850 xxxxx unchanged and unused
btw you show your values inverted.
Also my crank pw code in gufx shuts the injectors off during excessive cranking regardless.
-
- Posts: 159
- Joined: 2021 Mar 22, 15:58
- Location: Newington CT
- Vehicle Information: 1986 Mustang GT, Stock block, TFS 170 Heads , N41 cam, ported cobra intake, nitrous, T5 , 3.73s
Re: Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
Years ago in upstate NY we were snowmobiling, it was -40F in the morning and the Jeep Cherokee would crank but not start. I was amazed how strong the battery was hanging in there. after about 20 seconds I realized it must have enough fuel by now so i went to clear flood mode by holding the pedal to the floor and she slowly burped to life! Good old horse! Clear flood does have its use once in a while. BTW -40 feels like you must be in outer space no need to be out snowmobiling in that.
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 2022 Aug 04, 00:13
- Location: Mesa, AZ
- Vehicle Information: 87 Bronco FSB Eddie Bauer w/ 89 Mustang MAF Swap / C3W PCM w/ A9L2 BIN from Decipha / 347 FRPP BOSS Block (Part# M-6009-347) / AFR 165cc heads / 42Lbs Green(Active) & 30Lbs Red(Shelf) Bosch Injectors / CompCams 35-510-8/FW XE258HR-12 / AOD fully beefed up / King 2.5" Suspension w/ Bump Stops / 5.13 Gears Front/Rear on Auburn Pro LSD / 35"(Active)/33"/37" Tires / Very Custom Built Bronco aka Bonnie
Re: Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
I'll give the pedal a shot! And gotcha on the MAF, where clipping to 0 somewhere along the MAF curve I gather causes "that fault"? Somewhere I think you said/replied w/ EEC-IV it's forgiving in having a bad MAF table w/ a huge drop that breaks the curve (paraphrasing all this) like what you're suggesting to do, and it will run up to basically 900 and fault out but not fail. Later style ECMs, I think you (or whoever wrote this) said EEC-V was included, is less forgiving and won't run/cause much more undesirable results than Iv.
Love the manual hacks the engineers put in there :) I did see the PW crank code you have while paroozing and realized that's why it slows down/dies off vs. something else actually dying. Def thought my battery and/or starter was just dying at first but I could always restart and and it'd act normal till it dies off then rinse/repeat. It was clearly code ;) Thank you for adding that too btw!
Invert the table.... I've always wondered about my tables and the inversion... So lots of other MAF tables show highest/lowest like you suggest vs. lowest/highest like I have but some do too. Even EEC Analyzer and I'm sure Binary Editor show as highest/lowest.... I even wrote a conversion in my fuel spreadsheet to invert it when I needed to transfer it to say EA...
The reason my table is inverted is because that's how the MAF table shows in the A9L2_220405.bin file which is where I started. I just assumed you had it low to high for good reason in the base BIN, so I just stuck with that since day one and it's been 1,000s of adjustments since... Never had a reason to question/ask about it.... But aight I flipped it and I see even the graph displays correctly :) I'll test it tomorrow/this weekend.
Thank You!
Love the manual hacks the engineers put in there :) I did see the PW crank code you have while paroozing and realized that's why it slows down/dies off vs. something else actually dying. Def thought my battery and/or starter was just dying at first but I could always restart and and it'd act normal till it dies off then rinse/repeat. It was clearly code ;) Thank you for adding that too btw!
Invert the table.... I've always wondered about my tables and the inversion... So lots of other MAF tables show highest/lowest like you suggest vs. lowest/highest like I have but some do too. Even EEC Analyzer and I'm sure Binary Editor show as highest/lowest.... I even wrote a conversion in my fuel spreadsheet to invert it when I needed to transfer it to say EA...
The reason my table is inverted is because that's how the MAF table shows in the A9L2_220405.bin file which is where I started. I just assumed you had it low to high for good reason in the base BIN, so I just stuck with that since day one and it's been 1,000s of adjustments since... Never had a reason to question/ask about it.... But aight I flipped it and I see even the graph displays correctly :) I'll test it tomorrow/this weekend.
Thank You!
-
- Posts: 5385
- Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
- Location: Metairie, LA
- Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L
Re: Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
I have no idea what your trying to describe about the maf but the ecu uses the top point for lookup and works down. Its the same for eec 5 as it is eec 4.
1023 23
0 20 <--- zero ends the maf curve
below no longer exists and is no longer part of the maf curve regardless of what you put in there.
900 1600
850 1400
800 ....
the above is a valid and non corrupt maf transfer.
You cant have any lower x axis value higher than the above value or it will corrupt. But 0 ends the maf transfer.
ex:
1023 23
1 20
900 1600 << will corrupt the maf.
remember all x axis need to be maximum to minimum values in chronological order for all functions otherwise youll corrupt it.
No, the reason why your maf is inverted is because you didnt setup tunerpro correctly per the getting started write up.
1023 23
0 20 <--- zero ends the maf curve
below no longer exists and is no longer part of the maf curve regardless of what you put in there.
900 1600
850 1400
800 ....
the above is a valid and non corrupt maf transfer.
You cant have any lower x axis value higher than the above value or it will corrupt. But 0 ends the maf transfer.
ex:
1023 23
1 20
900 1600 << will corrupt the maf.
remember all x axis need to be maximum to minimum values in chronological order for all functions otherwise youll corrupt it.
No, the reason why your maf is inverted is because you didnt setup tunerpro correctly per the getting started write up.
-
- Posts: 159
- Joined: 2021 Mar 22, 15:58
- Location: Newington CT
- Vehicle Information: 1986 Mustang GT, Stock block, TFS 170 Heads , N41 cam, ported cobra intake, nitrous, T5 , 3.73s
Re: Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
TunerPro RT Setup for Moates QuarterHorse / Jaybird / SuperLogger (EEC-IV / EEC-V)
After you have downloaded and installed TunerPro RT open tunerpro and do the following:
up top in the tool bars go to tools >> preferences. The "general" table should be opened first
put a check in the box for the following:
Load last XDF at startup
Load last BIN at startup
<---File Associations--->
*.xdf
*.bin
*.adx
*.xdl
<---Table Editor Options--->
Reverse Rows <---
UNCHECK the following:
Enable Edit Logging
Item List Tracking
Now look to the right two tabs for "KEYBOARD"
scroll down to the Delete XDF Parameter command, select it and click the Clear Combination button
Now look to the far right for the data acq./emulation tab
(on left) data acquisition & logging >> interface type >> select "use plug-in" from drop down menu
click configure plug in >> port type >> shared with emulator
Save changes and now click on view up top and click "Floating Utility Tabs" only once.
Copied from the getting started page. You missed reverse rows. If we all follow this it's easier in the long run.
After you have downloaded and installed TunerPro RT open tunerpro and do the following:
up top in the tool bars go to tools >> preferences. The "general" table should be opened first
put a check in the box for the following:
Load last XDF at startup
Load last BIN at startup
<---File Associations--->
*.xdf
*.bin
*.adx
*.xdl
<---Table Editor Options--->
Reverse Rows <---
UNCHECK the following:
Enable Edit Logging
Item List Tracking
Now look to the right two tabs for "KEYBOARD"
scroll down to the Delete XDF Parameter command, select it and click the Clear Combination button
Now look to the far right for the data acq./emulation tab
(on left) data acquisition & logging >> interface type >> select "use plug-in" from drop down menu
click configure plug in >> port type >> shared with emulator
Save changes and now click on view up top and click "Floating Utility Tabs" only once.
Copied from the getting started page. You missed reverse rows. If we all follow this it's easier in the long run.
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 2022 Aug 04, 00:13
- Location: Mesa, AZ
- Vehicle Information: 87 Bronco FSB Eddie Bauer w/ 89 Mustang MAF Swap / C3W PCM w/ A9L2 BIN from Decipha / 347 FRPP BOSS Block (Part# M-6009-347) / AFR 165cc heads / 42Lbs Green(Active) & 30Lbs Red(Shelf) Bosch Injectors / CompCams 35-510-8/FW XE258HR-12 / AOD fully beefed up / King 2.5" Suspension w/ Bump Stops / 5.13 Gears Front/Rear on Auburn Pro LSD / 35"(Active)/33"/37" Tires / Very Custom Built Bronco aka Bonnie
Re: Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
Thank you Decipha and yeah that's what I was tryin to explain, but didn't do a great job ;)
And yes clearly I missed the reverse row but I see that's just a visual/display thing so I gather it wasn't really an issue but if I flip my MAF as is that probably won't go so well ;) I actually like the low to high view cuz I don't have to resize the History/Monitor/Dashboard/Comments window as far down :D
And yes clearly I missed the reverse row but I see that's just a visual/display thing so I gather it wasn't really an issue but if I flip my MAF as is that probably won't go so well ;) I actually like the low to high view cuz I don't have to resize the History/Monitor/Dashboard/Comments window as far down :D
-
- Posts: 5385
- Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
- Location: Metairie, LA
- Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L
Re: Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
You can actally put the maf in upside down and it will still work
seen someone do that once
not recommended but appeared to work fine
seen someone do that once
not recommended but appeared to work fine
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 2022 Aug 04, 00:13
- Location: Mesa, AZ
- Vehicle Information: 87 Bronco FSB Eddie Bauer w/ 89 Mustang MAF Swap / C3W PCM w/ A9L2 BIN from Decipha / 347 FRPP BOSS Block (Part# M-6009-347) / AFR 165cc heads / 42Lbs Green(Active) & 30Lbs Red(Shelf) Bosch Injectors / CompCams 35-510-8/FW XE258HR-12 / AOD fully beefed up / King 2.5" Suspension w/ Bump Stops / 5.13 Gears Front/Rear on Auburn Pro LSD / 35"(Active)/33"/37" Tires / Very Custom Built Bronco aka Bonnie
Re: Clearing a Flooded Engine w/ the MAF Table?
I did flip the table after reading the response initially and it does map correctly :D Haven't ran it like that but was curious. Got it all working and the purge fuel BIN I made works nicely. Because I really can't get the pedal down to over 900 TP I don't think I can initiate that clear command anyways so the MAF table is the best way to go in my case. The carpet limits the last bit of travel and I'm not fixing that any time soon...
So the cause of my flooding I believe was setting the Default Desired RPM and a couple other RPM settings to 688. It ran great all summer and even winter like that but I'm thinkin when I have my bad start and I flood it, the limit I'm setting on the RPMs (the original values were higher than 688) restricts it from turning over and further floods it. It's worse when it's extremely cold out but as said I've only had this situation a few times now but it's a nightmare gettin it restarted after. I restored it back to 1200 RPMs and the others to 725/whatever and it fires up NP and still idles around "688" anyways. It varies of course but w/ the MAF table good it idles proper and I see when it's cold it'll startup closer to 1200 then calm down vs. when I had it set to 688, that's pretty much where it always ran at.
I'm thankful I checked but before I drove it, I did check my oil after flooding it and I was oddly quite a bit over. Sure enough I pulled a sample pour (I have a Fumoto oil drain valve w/ a lever) and it came out like water so I made diesel fuel ;) Fortunately I never drove it since I found this before I drove off but yeah the flooding was pretty serious. W/ the purge fuel BIN, that won't happen anymore since it only flooded from sitting after I got pissed off and walked away (one of the few times you shouldn't walk away even if you're pissed off :D ) Fresh oil is in there now and all has been well for the last few days and I even have a few hours of trail time in ;)
So the cause of my flooding I believe was setting the Default Desired RPM and a couple other RPM settings to 688. It ran great all summer and even winter like that but I'm thinkin when I have my bad start and I flood it, the limit I'm setting on the RPMs (the original values were higher than 688) restricts it from turning over and further floods it. It's worse when it's extremely cold out but as said I've only had this situation a few times now but it's a nightmare gettin it restarted after. I restored it back to 1200 RPMs and the others to 725/whatever and it fires up NP and still idles around "688" anyways. It varies of course but w/ the MAF table good it idles proper and I see when it's cold it'll startup closer to 1200 then calm down vs. when I had it set to 688, that's pretty much where it always ran at.
I'm thankful I checked but before I drove it, I did check my oil after flooding it and I was oddly quite a bit over. Sure enough I pulled a sample pour (I have a Fumoto oil drain valve w/ a lever) and it came out like water so I made diesel fuel ;) Fortunately I never drove it since I found this before I drove off but yeah the flooding was pretty serious. W/ the purge fuel BIN, that won't happen anymore since it only flooded from sitting after I got pissed off and walked away (one of the few times you shouldn't walk away even if you're pissed off :D ) Fresh oil is in there now and all has been well for the last few days and I even have a few hours of trail time in ;)