03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
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Brewster
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2021 May 15, 15:59
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Vehicle Information: 1992 Mustang LX
347 Cui
AFR 185
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
Ok I'll take a look at that!
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Brewster
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2021 May 15, 15:59
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Vehicle Information: 1992 Mustang LX
347 Cui
AFR 185
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
Attached is a warm start Idle log with the Current V1 tune, I got the logging working well now and the wideband seems to be accurate reading as well. One thing I have been fighting is the poor resolution at idle of this BA5000 maf and you'll see approx 150 sec into the log it clips the bottom cells of the maf curve and will stumble and want to die. I'll grab the rest of the logs today for part throttle and WOT as well.
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Brewster
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2021 May 15, 15:59
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Vehicle Information: 1992 Mustang LX
347 Cui
AFR 185
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
The dyno run attached shows the Lambda reading which I have a reference line of .780
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Brewster
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2021 May 15, 15:59
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Vehicle Information: 1992 Mustang LX
347 Cui
AFR 185
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
Here is some steady state eddy loaded hitting the maf points for 10 sec or so at a time monitoring lambse. I feel like this file is not set up properly or something as the fueling seems to change slightly run per run.
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decipha
- Posts: 5049
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- Location: Metairie, LA
- Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
looks to be idling perfect.
I have no idea what your referring to about poor resolution but the maf signal looks excellent.
you have no idle torque reserve spark is maxed out at idle, why would you do that?
you need to set the injector high slope to 75.156 or whatever you think your injector flows now.
You started the wot pull wayyyyyyy too high in the rpm range. You ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS start the pull below 1500 rpm on every vehicle every time. You started the graph at 3000 but didn't even go WOT until 4k rpm.
The throttle pedal is not going full open. Verify the throttle cable isn't messed up or the pedal isn't sticking on the carpet.
The fueling is suppose to change and be inconsistent that's what the customer specifically wanted when they de-capped the injectors.
The MIL is on with 2 codes being thrown. What codes is she throwing? You should know better than going wot on a vehicle with the check engine light on that's a major no-no.
Why did you disable the fuel rail pressure sensor?
Your closed throttle high rpm spark jumped to 50 when you went closed throttle coming off WOT. That's not good and she had wayy too much decel spark up top as well.
Why are you commanding such a high idle rpm?
Your also getting close to clipping load as well. Above 1.8 you should consider scaling load so you have headroom in case someone tosses on a smaller pulley later down the line. If that's a possibility?
You never dialed in inferred load not even half ass-ed it.
Also you don't have to zip the logs nor put them in folders. Tunerpro already compressed the files in the xdl.
Never change the top row of the adaptive update rate table fn1325 as you can corrupt ram
You neutered her near 0 vac and 0 boost. You pulled 6 degrees at .8 load and 8 degrees at 1.1 load. Why?
fill out a vehicle info sheet in notepad for this and attach it back so I have some kind of idea whats all done.
This is what I can tell from the dyno graph.
513hp at 6240 rpm
448tq at 5610 rpm
wot rpm lambda imaf spk load
5700 .78 537 16.25 1.84
5500 .79 530 16 1.85
5000 .785 516 15.75 1.88
4500 .835 500 15.25 1.91
.8 commanded
that's perfect. Depending on the compression ratio, boost and fuel grade you may be able to squeeze a few more degrees of timing in her and make a tad more. Without the vehicle info sheet its impossible to know.
This should make her much easier to dial in as I have everything simplified and cleaned up.
I have no idea what your referring to about poor resolution but the maf signal looks excellent.
you have no idle torque reserve spark is maxed out at idle, why would you do that?
you need to set the injector high slope to 75.156 or whatever you think your injector flows now.
You started the wot pull wayyyyyyy too high in the rpm range. You ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS start the pull below 1500 rpm on every vehicle every time. You started the graph at 3000 but didn't even go WOT until 4k rpm.
The throttle pedal is not going full open. Verify the throttle cable isn't messed up or the pedal isn't sticking on the carpet.
The fueling is suppose to change and be inconsistent that's what the customer specifically wanted when they de-capped the injectors.
The MIL is on with 2 codes being thrown. What codes is she throwing? You should know better than going wot on a vehicle with the check engine light on that's a major no-no.
Why did you disable the fuel rail pressure sensor?
Your closed throttle high rpm spark jumped to 50 when you went closed throttle coming off WOT. That's not good and she had wayy too much decel spark up top as well.
Why are you commanding such a high idle rpm?
Your also getting close to clipping load as well. Above 1.8 you should consider scaling load so you have headroom in case someone tosses on a smaller pulley later down the line. If that's a possibility?
You never dialed in inferred load not even half ass-ed it.
Also you don't have to zip the logs nor put them in folders. Tunerpro already compressed the files in the xdl.
Never change the top row of the adaptive update rate table fn1325 as you can corrupt ram
You neutered her near 0 vac and 0 boost. You pulled 6 degrees at .8 load and 8 degrees at 1.1 load. Why?
fill out a vehicle info sheet in notepad for this and attach it back so I have some kind of idea whats all done.
This is what I can tell from the dyno graph.
513hp at 6240 rpm
448tq at 5610 rpm
wot rpm lambda imaf spk load
5700 .78 537 16.25 1.84
5500 .79 530 16 1.85
5000 .785 516 15.75 1.88
4500 .835 500 15.25 1.91
.8 commanded
that's perfect. Depending on the compression ratio, boost and fuel grade you may be able to squeeze a few more degrees of timing in her and make a tad more. Without the vehicle info sheet its impossible to know.
This should make her much easier to dial in as I have everything simplified and cleaned up.
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Brewster
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2021 May 15, 15:59
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Vehicle Information: 1992 Mustang LX
347 Cui
AFR 185
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
Awesome feed back man! Appreciate you taking the time to review this stuff. I'll fill out a data sheet asap, keep in mind I started with SCT on this one and used value files to set it up as I don't know how to manually scale. That being said I want to learn how to do it for sure !
The maf signal is great when driving and air is actually flowing past it well just above idle but for some reason if I lower it below approx 900 rpm its clipping the bottom imaf cells and wanting to stall approx 45-55 imaf counts. I noticed if I turn on the the defrost / AC compressor the IAC seems to add a bit of air and load on the engine and it doesn't clip those bottom cells. I seen online this was a bit of an issue with the BA5000 meter in the crusher intake being 123mm in diameter. Not sure the validity behind it and if there is a work around in calibrating.
Idle torque reserve i never messed with anything idle spark wise.
Injector slopes I def think need work and I've never known what to look for data wise to be able to work the slopes, break point etc.
I do agree about starting the dyno run low rpm wise and just didn't want to load it up that hard yet not knowing where load, spark etc were going to end up as all I did was use the 91 octane SCT value file for this thing when i first started with SCT on it.
I'll check the Throttle pedal for sure and see what's up
Yea I hear ya on the decaps, not overly happy about them either
I'll check the dtc's and get back to you.
Fuel rail pressure sensor I didn't know what disabled, is that part of the return fuel system value file I added when I made the base file with SCT value files added. I'm starting to learn and hear that the value files are not so great
Again not sure why the spark jumped to 50 but I see the lower tp_rel stuff in the border line knock table is pretty aggressive and might correlate with this unless there is a separate table I don't know about for closing of the tps
I agree its clipping load from what I seen and if i knew how to scale I def would, This project I took on purely as a learning experience and am not charging the owner for this one. He is in a bad spot in life and I need the experience with this thing so figured its a win win for both parties and hopefully I can gain some knowledge on the eec v
With inferred load are you talking about the failed maf table, if so then yes I never touched it and wasn't sure how to deal with it. Hopfully there is a method to deal with it such as histograms or an explanation how to deal with it.
Ok, I just seen in the forum rules where it said to zip the .csv files but I see now its actuall compressed like you said to an XDL. I thought I was being proactive and it bit me lol.
I yanked out a bunch of spark not knowing how to deal with the blower hitting so damn hard and was worried about knock which is impossible to hear on this thing.
Keep in mind this was fabbed with SCT value files, I also have confirmed his wideband is not working correctly and will rig up something better to log. I have to possibly try and filter the dyno graphs RPM signal as its accurate down low but its not being revved to 6K + rpm and is reading up that high.
The maf signal is great when driving and air is actually flowing past it well just above idle but for some reason if I lower it below approx 900 rpm its clipping the bottom imaf cells and wanting to stall approx 45-55 imaf counts. I noticed if I turn on the the defrost / AC compressor the IAC seems to add a bit of air and load on the engine and it doesn't clip those bottom cells. I seen online this was a bit of an issue with the BA5000 meter in the crusher intake being 123mm in diameter. Not sure the validity behind it and if there is a work around in calibrating.
Idle torque reserve i never messed with anything idle spark wise.
Injector slopes I def think need work and I've never known what to look for data wise to be able to work the slopes, break point etc.
I do agree about starting the dyno run low rpm wise and just didn't want to load it up that hard yet not knowing where load, spark etc were going to end up as all I did was use the 91 octane SCT value file for this thing when i first started with SCT on it.
I'll check the Throttle pedal for sure and see what's up
Yea I hear ya on the decaps, not overly happy about them either
I'll check the dtc's and get back to you.
Fuel rail pressure sensor I didn't know what disabled, is that part of the return fuel system value file I added when I made the base file with SCT value files added. I'm starting to learn and hear that the value files are not so great
Again not sure why the spark jumped to 50 but I see the lower tp_rel stuff in the border line knock table is pretty aggressive and might correlate with this unless there is a separate table I don't know about for closing of the tps
I agree its clipping load from what I seen and if i knew how to scale I def would, This project I took on purely as a learning experience and am not charging the owner for this one. He is in a bad spot in life and I need the experience with this thing so figured its a win win for both parties and hopefully I can gain some knowledge on the eec v
With inferred load are you talking about the failed maf table, if so then yes I never touched it and wasn't sure how to deal with it. Hopfully there is a method to deal with it such as histograms or an explanation how to deal with it.
Ok, I just seen in the forum rules where it said to zip the .csv files but I see now its actuall compressed like you said to an XDL. I thought I was being proactive and it bit me lol.
I yanked out a bunch of spark not knowing how to deal with the blower hitting so damn hard and was worried about knock which is impossible to hear on this thing.
Keep in mind this was fabbed with SCT value files, I also have confirmed his wideband is not working correctly and will rig up something better to log. I have to possibly try and filter the dyno graphs RPM signal as its accurate down low but its not being revved to 6K + rpm and is reading up that high.
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decipha
- Posts: 5049
- Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
- Location: Metairie, LA
- Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
You could summarize that as being bone stock running 93 with a 3.4 whipple at 20lbs using bad injectors, a high flow slot in the crusher and a return fuel system swap.
cool, the file I posted above should have you golden. Now you just need to dial in the maf and if need be the injectors.
Scaling Load is in the spark write up.
Using TunerPro you dont scale maf nor injectors as TunerPro does it for you.
It was probably idling like shit cuz it was failing the maf. You need to set the maf min counts to a lower value if maf drops low when using a larger maf otherwise itll use the failed load inferred table.
Ive never had that problem before nor ever heard of it.
You commanded a higher idle rpm and didnt consider idle torque reserve. You cant just kick up the base idle rpm without compensating for idle spark.
Dialing in injectors is covered the fuel write up give it a read. In short the high slope is irrelevant since the k-constant takes care of linear injector flow. That means anything on the high end (over half throttle) can only be corrected in the maf transfer.
That only leaves the low slope, breakpoint and offset to dial in. Its all in the write up.
Once you get her situated and run her out she should end up in the 580rwhp range.
yeah disabling the returnless pump disables the frps if you dont have access to manually changing the correct areas. SCT doesnt have that ability.
Spark jumped cuz it referenced bdl still at closed throttle. I have my custom fn2600 closed throttle code I put in there. I have spark dropping to 4 degrees at wot up top to prevent tip out knock, put that heat out in the exhaust and drop rpms faster. If you didnt have my code youd have to clip it using the lower load value at high rpm in the bdl spark table.
Load clips at 2.0 your not there yet. No way they can run anymore boost on that setup safely so no need in worrying about it.
The objective is to get it to hit as hard as it can. No need in leaving all that safe and free power and fuel economy on the table.
Use roller to vehicle speed for the dyno input if you need to.
Also you should always leave the smoothing factor on 0 on your dyno. You want to see those little dips and instabilies on the graph.
cool, the file I posted above should have you golden. Now you just need to dial in the maf and if need be the injectors.
Scaling Load is in the spark write up.
Using TunerPro you dont scale maf nor injectors as TunerPro does it for you.
It was probably idling like shit cuz it was failing the maf. You need to set the maf min counts to a lower value if maf drops low when using a larger maf otherwise itll use the failed load inferred table.
Ive never had that problem before nor ever heard of it.
You commanded a higher idle rpm and didnt consider idle torque reserve. You cant just kick up the base idle rpm without compensating for idle spark.
Dialing in injectors is covered the fuel write up give it a read. In short the high slope is irrelevant since the k-constant takes care of linear injector flow. That means anything on the high end (over half throttle) can only be corrected in the maf transfer.
That only leaves the low slope, breakpoint and offset to dial in. Its all in the write up.
Once you get her situated and run her out she should end up in the 580rwhp range.
yeah disabling the returnless pump disables the frps if you dont have access to manually changing the correct areas. SCT doesnt have that ability.
Spark jumped cuz it referenced bdl still at closed throttle. I have my custom fn2600 closed throttle code I put in there. I have spark dropping to 4 degrees at wot up top to prevent tip out knock, put that heat out in the exhaust and drop rpms faster. If you didnt have my code youd have to clip it using the lower load value at high rpm in the bdl spark table.
Load clips at 2.0 your not there yet. No way they can run anymore boost on that setup safely so no need in worrying about it.
The objective is to get it to hit as hard as it can. No need in leaving all that safe and free power and fuel economy on the table.
Use roller to vehicle speed for the dyno input if you need to.
Also you should always leave the smoothing factor on 0 on your dyno. You want to see those little dips and instabilies on the graph.
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Brewster
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2021 May 15, 15:59
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Vehicle Information: 1992 Mustang LX
347 Cui
AFR 185
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
Hitting the rollers today for a bit while its quiet around the shop and I can somewhat concentrate. I'll surf the new file a bit and see if I can make heads or tails of the changes made.
Just like you mentioned about all your custom tunes did you incorporate mechanical idle control in this one as well? I'll check the file to see how you have it set up.
If I read the fuel write up correctly the 2002+ strategies do not use perload unless you have code written to make it work? I'll check the file though as well and see how you have it set up.
Note: PRLDSW does not function on the 2002+ strategies that use TP_REL for fuel control natively. Thus 2002 and newer strategies do not support a PRLDSW scalar value of 0 for perload fuel control since the base fuel table uses TP_REL as the Y-axis scaling. In those cases verify if decipha has written code to do so in order to control fuel more precisely.
But then I see it says
PRLDSW=0
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND SETTING PRLDSW=0 IN ALL TUNES.
I fired up the car last night on this new file and it was so different in a good way its not even funny, babied it to warm stabilized idle, couple quick maf changes approx 15% yanked out and it was idling and warm starting smooth as silk. Excited to dial in the CL trims today and work on some WOT stuff as well. I also got my shop use Zeitronix ZT-2 wired into the car and pin 65 for logging and it seems much more accurate and stabile compared to the owners old AEM Uego.
Just like you mentioned about all your custom tunes did you incorporate mechanical idle control in this one as well? I'll check the file to see how you have it set up.
If I read the fuel write up correctly the 2002+ strategies do not use perload unless you have code written to make it work? I'll check the file though as well and see how you have it set up.
Note: PRLDSW does not function on the 2002+ strategies that use TP_REL for fuel control natively. Thus 2002 and newer strategies do not support a PRLDSW scalar value of 0 for perload fuel control since the base fuel table uses TP_REL as the Y-axis scaling. In those cases verify if decipha has written code to do so in order to control fuel more precisely.
But then I see it says
PRLDSW=0
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND SETTING PRLDSW=0 IN ALL TUNES.
I fired up the car last night on this new file and it was so different in a good way its not even funny, babied it to warm stabilized idle, couple quick maf changes approx 15% yanked out and it was idling and warm starting smooth as silk. Excited to dial in the CL trims today and work on some WOT stuff as well. I also got my shop use Zeitronix ZT-2 wired into the car and pin 65 for logging and it seems much more accurate and stabile compared to the owners old AEM Uego.
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Brewster
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2021 May 15, 15:59
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Vehicle Information: 1992 Mustang LX
347 Cui
AFR 185
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
Wow, minimal idle adjustments, minimal CL maf adjustments, Did a pull to see where I'm at and she laid down 515 wheel already without breaking a sweat. I noticed load and perload are maxing out. It sure sounds a lot cleaner and is idling way better.
I don't see a WB transfer for the ZT-2 and only ZT-3, not sure if they are the same but looks like it dipped pretty rich on the Dyno Jets WB compared to the ZT-2 Gauge which is currently logging using the ZT-3 gauge selected. Dynojet WB is installed in the tail pipe using the clamp from innovate.
I don't see a WB transfer for the ZT-2 and only ZT-3, not sure if they are the same but looks like it dipped pretty rich on the Dyno Jets WB compared to the ZT-2 Gauge which is currently logging using the ZT-3 gauge selected. Dynojet WB is installed in the tail pipe using the clamp from innovate.
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Brewster
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2021 May 15, 15:59
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Vehicle Information: 1992 Mustang LX
347 Cui
AFR 185
Re: 03 cobra - SCT Tuning questions
Well this is this is where I'll stop the wot stuff for now, it feels good and sounds good but time to review this a bit more. Looks like I may have to bring load down to leave room for error or if the owner doesn't plan on a smaller pulley anytime soon should I leave it be and it will just clip the top 2 rows of the borderline spark table? EDIT just read back and I do agree can't run this thing any harder anyways so probably not a big deal to leave load hey ?
Another question I have is when looking the datalogging screen do we watch Borderline Spark or spark actual PID.
Edit : just noticed I forgot ro get rid of the smoothing, I'll Def get that back to 0 so we can see any bumps and lumps!
Another question I have is when looking the datalogging screen do we watch Borderline Spark or spark actual PID.
Edit : just noticed I forgot ro get rid of the smoothing, I'll Def get that back to 0 so we can see any bumps and lumps!