Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

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Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Mon May 11, 2020 9:53 am

Are the electric fans turned off in the FOX_SWAPPED_181210 bin file? I did the swap this weekend and my fans are not coming on, either for temperature or for the A/C. I looked in the bin and found the HSF Present - HEDFPH switch is not checked for Set, but when comapred to the T4M2 this parameter is checked. Do I just need to click the box and they will work? I see that the Electro Drive Fan Present - EDFHP is chacked to Set. Is anything else needed to turn them on? I did remember to change the pin from 41 to 32 while swapping the wires over. I see that there is also a parameter called LSF Open Circuit Check Time - VDLEDF, is there a way with a scan tool to check and make sure that the pin is seated correctly and working?

Thanks!
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- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby decipha » Mon May 11, 2020 2:02 pm

it goes to pin 55 and iirc the polarity is inverted.

since you hooked it up on the hsf pin enable the hsf HEDF and it will work. Im not sure if it will come on for a/c though so be sure to test.
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Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Mon May 11, 2020 3:42 pm

Thank you for the advice, I'll give it a try here in a few minutes. I looked at the ECM pinouts that you have posted and it does indeed appear that both pins 32 and 55 are listed as "o-" while pin 41 on the A9P is listed as "i+". I've got my relay wired up as in the write up using high speed fan only, terminal 85 to pin 41 on the A9P and terminal 86 to pin 37.
Would I need to switch terminal 85 to connect to the SN95 ECM pin 55 (or 32 if it will turn the fan on with the A/C) and locate a switched 12V+ for terminal 86?

Thanks!
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- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
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- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Tue May 12, 2020 4:59 pm

So I set the HSF to Enable and now it's almost always on with what appears random cycling. The A/C does not affect this behavior. Is this a polarity issue? Can this be resolved? I'm going to try and swap the wire from pin 32 to 55 so that it's connected to the LSF. Hopefully this will stop the funky behavior.
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- Innovate LM-2
- Stock 302
- 5 Speed conversion
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- 76mm C&L MAF housing
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- Nitrous Works 125 wet kit
- 24lb injectors (Old Ford Motorsport)
- B Cam
- March underdrive pulleys
- 3G Alternator (Factory pulley)
- Mishimoto aluminum radiator
- Contour fans
- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
- BBK X-pipe
- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Tue May 12, 2020 5:54 pm

I now have the electric fans wired up to pin 55 and they come on as soon as I turn the key on, engine still off.
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- Innovate LM-2
- Stock 302
- 5 Speed conversion
- Stock Heads
- Stock Intake
- In fender CAI
- 76mm C&L MAF housing
- 70mm BBK TB
- Aeromotive adjustable FPR
- Nitrous Works 125 wet kit
- 24lb injectors (Old Ford Motorsport)
- B Cam
- March underdrive pulleys
- 3G Alternator (Factory pulley)
- Mishimoto aluminum radiator
- Contour fans
- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
- BBK X-pipe
- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Tue May 12, 2020 6:32 pm

I checked voltage at pin 55 with the key on and fan connected and running and I got a reading of almost 200mV. I unplugged the fans and the voltage dropped to a little over 30mV. I'm wondering if the ECM is getting a signal from somewhere else to turn the fans on, like A/C clutch, A/C pressure switch or ECT above the turn on setting.
Since the polarity is reversed with the new setup I feel I should take the wire that used to receive the constant 12V and ground it, while using pin 55 to supply the turn on voltage. Now I just need to figure out what tells pin 55 to supply voltage and change setting in the tune file?
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- Moates Quarterhorse with TunerPro RT
- Innovate LM-2
- Stock 302
- 5 Speed conversion
- Stock Heads
- Stock Intake
- In fender CAI
- 76mm C&L MAF housing
- 70mm BBK TB
- Aeromotive adjustable FPR
- Nitrous Works 125 wet kit
- 24lb injectors (Old Ford Motorsport)
- B Cam
- March underdrive pulleys
- 3G Alternator (Factory pulley)
- Mishimoto aluminum radiator
- Contour fans
- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
- BBK X-pipe
- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby decipha » Tue May 12, 2020 7:00 pm

yea the polarity is inverted

you need to disable the hedf

the lsf ect on and off scalars turn the fan on and off
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Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Tue May 12, 2020 7:46 pm

I do still have the HSF set to be present, I'll uncheck the box. Do I need to change the polarity at the relay, run one of the terminals to ground and the other to pin 55?

I've done some research on the LSF and the default is on and the ECM tells it to turn off.

Thanks!
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- A9L2
- Moates Quarterhorse with TunerPro RT
- Innovate LM-2
- Stock 302
- 5 Speed conversion
- Stock Heads
- Stock Intake
- In fender CAI
- 76mm C&L MAF housing
- 70mm BBK TB
- Aeromotive adjustable FPR
- Nitrous Works 125 wet kit
- 24lb injectors (Old Ford Motorsport)
- B Cam
- March underdrive pulleys
- 3G Alternator (Factory pulley)
- Mishimoto aluminum radiator
- Contour fans
- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
- BBK X-pipe
- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby decipha » Tue May 12, 2020 8:55 pm

i have a write up on it under reference

http://efidynotuning.com/foxfan.htm

you can hook it up any way you choose and just adjust for it in the tune accordingly.
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06 Chrysler 300 AWD

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Wed May 13, 2020 4:26 pm

I looked at the write up you have for the fan and I had originally used the method with one fan. Should I wire it like the attached schematic? Do I need a TIP120 transistor between Pin 55 of the ECM and terminal 85 of the relay?
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Trogdor
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- In fender CAI
- 76mm C&L MAF housing
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- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
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- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby decipha » Wed May 13, 2020 4:46 pm

if u want you can hook it up any way you wish you have numerous options.
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06 Chrysler 300 AWD

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Wed May 20, 2020 12:03 pm

Ok, so however I hook up the fans or set the tune up, I cannot get them to work correctly. I've searched and read and I've been staring at the diagram you have in the write up. I've even learned how a transistor works.

So this is what I have learned from my searching and what I've experienced:

- Pin 55 is for LSF and 32 is for HSF. Pin 32 may not turn the fan on when the A/C is turned on.
- Both Pins 55 and 32 have reversed polarity when compared to Pin 41 on the A9P.
- Just swapping pin 41 (A9P HSF) to pin 32 (T4M0 HSF) does not turn the fan on for temperature or A/C. Apparently I"m the only person having this problem.
- If I want to use the LSF pin 55 in the T4M0 ECM I will need to wire in a transistor (TIP120) to switch the coil in the relay to ground since the polarity is now inverted. Currently the relay coil is getting a switched ignition power source from Pin 37.
- I'll need to add a diode wired to either side of the relay coil to prevent power from pin 37 going to pin 55. Can I use an LED in lieu of a diode since I don't have one on hand? At least temporarily for testing purposes?

Please let me know if any of my points are wrong and what direction I need to look in so I can get my fans to work again.

Thanks!
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- 5 Speed conversion
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- In fender CAI
- 76mm C&L MAF housing
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- Nitrous Works 125 wet kit
- 24lb injectors (Old Ford Motorsport)
- B Cam
- March underdrive pulleys
- 3G Alternator (Factory pulley)
- Mishimoto aluminum radiator
- Contour fans
- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
- BBK X-pipe
- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby decipha » Wed May 20, 2020 3:37 pm

no transistor led or diode is needed

see the very first reply to the thread. Toss it on pin 55 and invert the relay. Take the wire off that goes to ignition power and just throw that side of the coil to ground.
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Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Wed May 20, 2020 5:40 pm

I wired as you suggested above.

Pin 55 to terminal 86 of the relay.
Terminal 85 of the relay to ground.
EDFHP checked on Set.
HEDFHP not checked
LSFECT is 208
LSFECT_CL is 202

The coolant was at ambient temperature (75 degrees) when I started the engine. After about 15 seconds I turned on the A/C and the compressor came on, but the fans did not. I left the A/C on for about 30 seconds to see if there was some sort of delay, but I turned it off as I did not want to blow up my condenser. I let the car idle and monitored the ECT until it got up to 220 degrees. The fans never came on. I did try the A/C again around 180 degrees to see if that made a difference, but the fans still did not come on.

What am I doing wrong? I'm attaching my tune in case someone wants to look over it and tell me where I went wrong.

I'm also attaching a picture of how I was thinking of wiring up using the transistor. I've not tried this yet, but would it work?

Thanks!
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Trogdor
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- Innovate LM-2
- Stock 302
- 5 Speed conversion
- Stock Heads
- Stock Intake
- In fender CAI
- 76mm C&L MAF housing
- 70mm BBK TB
- Aeromotive adjustable FPR
- Nitrous Works 125 wet kit
- 24lb injectors (Old Ford Motorsport)
- B Cam
- March underdrive pulleys
- 3G Alternator (Factory pulley)
- Mishimoto aluminum radiator
- Contour fans
- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
- BBK X-pipe
- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby gamh44 » Wed May 20, 2020 6:12 pm

Terminal 85 and 86 on the relay supply the coil which controls the switch to connect Terminal 30 to 87.

If you have 85 to ground and 86 to ECU 55 then there is no power getting to the coil. So no switching.

If ECU 55 switches to ground then it should be connected to the ground side of the relay coil (85). The other side (86) should go to +12V for control. You should just be able to jump this from Terminal 30, since it should have a heavy gauge cable to it to run the fan.
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Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Sat May 23, 2020 8:04 pm

I've tried the following combinations of wiring and tune settings. I did not let the car get up to temp as I need to know if it will turn the fans on with the A/C.

PIN 55 TO TERMINAL 85, TERMINAL 86 TO GROUND
SET YES
LSF X
HSF
Fan never comes on

PIN 55 TO TERMINAL 85, TERMINAL 86 TO GROUND
SET YES
LSF X
HSF X
Fan never comes on


PIN 55 TO TERMINAL 85, TERMINAL 86 TO PIN37/57 IGNITION 12V+
SET YES
LSF X
HSF
Fan on with KOEO. Fan remain running after starting the engine until A/C is turned on then fan turns off. Fan remains off when A/C is turned off.

PIN 55 TO TERMINAL 85, TERMINAL 86 TO PIN37/57 IGNITION 12V+
SET YES
LSF X
HSF X
Fan on with KOEO. Fan off with KOER A/C on or off.

PIN 55 TO TERMINAL 85, TERMINAL 86 TO PIN37/57 IGNITION 12V+
SET YES
LSF
HSF
Fan never comes on.


PIN 32 TO TERMINAL 85, TERMINAL 86 TO GROUND
SET YES
LSF X
HSF X
Fan never comes on.

PIN 32 TO TERMINAL 85, TERMINAL 86 TO PIN37/57 IGNITION 12V+
SET YES
LSF X
HSF X
KOEO fans off. KOER Fans always on independent of A/C

PIN 32 TO TERMINAL 86, TERMINAL 85 TO GROUND
SET YES
LSF X
HSF X
Fan never comes on.


I think I just need to give up and use the fan controller from the old Flex-A-Lite fan at this point. I believe I've tried every wiring and tune combination and they still won't work.
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Trogdor
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- A9P
- A9L2
- Moates Quarterhorse with TunerPro RT
- Innovate LM-2
- Stock 302
- 5 Speed conversion
- Stock Heads
- Stock Intake
- In fender CAI
- 76mm C&L MAF housing
- 70mm BBK TB
- Aeromotive adjustable FPR
- Nitrous Works 125 wet kit
- 24lb injectors (Old Ford Motorsport)
- B Cam
- March underdrive pulleys
- 3G Alternator (Factory pulley)
- Mishimoto aluminum radiator
- Contour fans
- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
- BBK X-pipe
- 2 chamber flows

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby decipha » Sat May 23, 2020 10:11 pm

man that sounds like a nightmare

PIN 55 TO TERMINAL 85, TERMINAL 86 TO PIN37/57 IGNITION 12V+
SET YES
LSF X
HSF
Fan on with KOEO. Fan remain running after starting the engine until A/C is turned on then fan turns off. Fan remains off when A/C is turned off.


This is correct. I inverted the low speed fan pin so it works normal. The fan didn't turn back on because the LSF Fan Off Delay takes 50 seconds.

This should have her functioning normally now.

btw- I updated the pin outs to include the i/o of pin 41.

-Enjoy

-I will be posting a newer cbaza xdf with this patch included once i finish the new datalogging code for cbaza.
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD

Re: Electric fan question Foxbody to T4M2

Unread postby Trogdor » Sun May 24, 2020 12:13 pm

Michael,

Thank you for the updated tune file. I made sure my wiring was as above and loaded the bin into the QH. At this point I have quick disconnect butt connectors so it's easier for me to swap wires around.

The fans did not come on by turning on the A/C. I left the A/C running for a couple of minutes to make sure that some timer was not telling the fans to turn on. I then turned the A/C off and flipped the wires going to terminal 85 and 86 at the relay, but the A/C still did not not turn on the fans.

I put the wires back as indicated above and let the car idle up to operating temperature.

When the ECT read 160 degrees the fans came on, but never turned off, the temperature was keeping steady in the low to mid 160's. I turned the car off and then started it again with the ECT was at 134. The fans remained off even turning on the A/C, but came on again when the ECT reached 160. In the tune file I see that the LSF fan is set to turn on at 208 and off at 202.

With the fans off I do not have any voltage between pin 37/57 and pin 55, but with the fans on I'm reading 12 volts.

Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks!
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Trogdor
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Location: Anna, TX
Name: Matthew
Vehicle Information: - 1993 Ford Mustang 5.0
- A9P
- A9L2
- Moates Quarterhorse with TunerPro RT
- Innovate LM-2
- Stock 302
- 5 Speed conversion
- Stock Heads
- Stock Intake
- In fender CAI
- 76mm C&L MAF housing
- 70mm BBK TB
- Aeromotive adjustable FPR
- Nitrous Works 125 wet kit
- 24lb injectors (Old Ford Motorsport)
- B Cam
- March underdrive pulleys
- 3G Alternator (Factory pulley)
- Mishimoto aluminum radiator
- Contour fans
- Ceramic coated BBK shorties
- BBK X-pipe
- 2 chamber flows


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