oil seperator kit?

Vehicle specific forum for tuning the Foxbody Chassis Mustangs utilizing decipha's GUFX Strategy

oil seperator kit?

Unread postby Rick » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:30 am

will this affect anything at all in the tune?
is it worth it?

I'm only asking because I did a wot pull beg. of this summer and at the end noticed alot of blue smoke coming out the tail pipe and smell of oil.

cheers
Rick
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Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby dleach1407 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:22 am

The good ones do work however, it will only remove the oil you pick up through the pcv/breather system. If you are picking up oil in the combustion chamber because you have bad intake gaskets leaking, or bad rings or something like that, it wont help. I just installed a catch can I built to get rid of the oil smell coming from the breathers. It seems to have worked.
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Vehicle Information: 1995 Mustang T5 CBAZA/T4M2 Moates QH BE or TpRT
331 10.2:1 compression, TFS 11r 190 56cc heads
HPX MAF 3.25 OD tube with SaxonPC air straightener
F303 Cam, 1.6 Miller Mid-Lift rockers
T5 with an XTD clutch that somehow holds my power
80lb Dekas, Stock lines and rails 340LPH in tank
Minor upgraded T5 with counter gear stiffening plate
76mm On3 turbo, HP hotside, Custom coldside
560WHP and 606TQ 8lbs tapering to 6 91 octane
27degrees total timing.
Vehicle 2 Information: 1957 Ford F100
Mustang II front suspension -done
C-notched rear frame - done
Luxury ECU using RZASA - have
Fuel injected explorer 302 - have
4r70W -have

Lots of stuff planned including air bags and twin 55mm turbos.

Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby Rick » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:25 am

i'm 90% sure it's picking up through the pcv, compression test checks out, intake gasket should be good, did a smoke test and everything checked out and also sprayed some carb cleaner around and rpm's stayed the same
Rick
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LC-2

Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby dleach1407 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:06 pm

At WOT, the PCV valve isnt really flowing anything. The PCV valve is active under vacuum. When you go WOT, there is no vacuum so the PCV valve doesnt really do anything. Any positive pressure would typically be escaping through the valve cover breather since there is less restriction. The PCV has a filter in the lower manifold (most intakes) that restricts it more than the valve cover. Do you have the full PCV system in place? Since my car is turbo I have the valve cover vent going to a catch can and the outlet of the catch can recirculates back in right before the turbo to recirculate any smell back into the engine. I do not have a PCV valve since my intake does not support one.
dleach1407
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Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:13 pm
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mustang T5 CBAZA/T4M2 Moates QH BE or TpRT
331 10.2:1 compression, TFS 11r 190 56cc heads
HPX MAF 3.25 OD tube with SaxonPC air straightener
F303 Cam, 1.6 Miller Mid-Lift rockers
T5 with an XTD clutch that somehow holds my power
80lb Dekas, Stock lines and rails 340LPH in tank
Minor upgraded T5 with counter gear stiffening plate
76mm On3 turbo, HP hotside, Custom coldside
560WHP and 606TQ 8lbs tapering to 6 91 octane
27degrees total timing.
Vehicle 2 Information: 1957 Ford F100
Mustang II front suspension -done
C-notched rear frame - done
Luxury ECU using RZASA - have
Fuel injected explorer 302 - have
4r70W -have

Lots of stuff planned including air bags and twin 55mm turbos.

Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:24 pm

on a naturally aspirated engine at WOT there will always be some type of vacuum in the inlet system albeit not much if your inlet flows well.

At WOT the engine is trying to suck as much as it can and since the throttle body blade is the largest restriction you will have more suction there due its size. The smaller opening such as vac ports and such will still have traces amounts of vacuum that can cause some oil to get sucked in.

in those cases a catch can is vital

burning oil knocks down octane and can cause detonation and if it gets bad enough pre-ignition
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Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby dleach1407 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:21 pm

If the crank case is pressurized due to blow-by, the pressure is going to take the the path of least resistance to escape. If the PCV valve has a restriction (the mesh filter in the lower manifold) and the valve cover has none, the majority of the pressure will go out of the valve cover vent, not through the PCV valve at WOT. The PCV system does not have enough vacuum or does not move enough air through the valve to evacuate the crank case faster than the blow-by occurs at WOT. While I agree, at WOT there is a small amount of vacuum on the PCV valve (not measurable with a standard vacuum gauge), the small amount of vacuum is not enough to overcome the amount of blow-by escaping past the rings. From what I have seen on the dyno, most of the blowby escapes out the breathers at WOT in those situations. Is this different than what you have experienced Decipha?
dleach1407
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Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:13 pm
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mustang T5 CBAZA/T4M2 Moates QH BE or TpRT
331 10.2:1 compression, TFS 11r 190 56cc heads
HPX MAF 3.25 OD tube with SaxonPC air straightener
F303 Cam, 1.6 Miller Mid-Lift rockers
T5 with an XTD clutch that somehow holds my power
80lb Dekas, Stock lines and rails 340LPH in tank
Minor upgraded T5 with counter gear stiffening plate
76mm On3 turbo, HP hotside, Custom coldside
560WHP and 606TQ 8lbs tapering to 6 91 octane
27degrees total timing.
Vehicle 2 Information: 1957 Ford F100
Mustang II front suspension -done
C-notched rear frame - done
Luxury ECU using RZASA - have
Fuel injected explorer 302 - have
4r70W -have

Lots of stuff planned including air bags and twin 55mm turbos.

Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:32 pm

you cannot run a valve cover vent with pcv otherwise you will have an unmetered air leak
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
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Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby dleach1407 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:01 pm

decipha wrote:you cannot run a valve cover vent with pcv otherwise you will have an unmetered air leak


I didnt say it was on a MAF car :-). While I do build a lot of fuel injected Mustangs, i have had quite a lot of experience with other formats as well. So if the majority of the blow-by is making it through the valve cover vent, is a catch can really going to help? That was my dilemma and why i only have a valve cover vent connected to a catch can and do not have a PCV valve.
dleach1407
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Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:13 pm
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mustang T5 CBAZA/T4M2 Moates QH BE or TpRT
331 10.2:1 compression, TFS 11r 190 56cc heads
HPX MAF 3.25 OD tube with SaxonPC air straightener
F303 Cam, 1.6 Miller Mid-Lift rockers
T5 with an XTD clutch that somehow holds my power
80lb Dekas, Stock lines and rails 340LPH in tank
Minor upgraded T5 with counter gear stiffening plate
76mm On3 turbo, HP hotside, Custom coldside
560WHP and 606TQ 8lbs tapering to 6 91 octane
27degrees total timing.
Vehicle 2 Information: 1957 Ford F100
Mustang II front suspension -done
C-notched rear frame - done
Luxury ECU using RZASA - have
Fuel injected explorer 302 - have
4r70W -have

Lots of stuff planned including air bags and twin 55mm turbos.

Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:36 pm

no reason to have an open breather thats just free power being given up

A vac pump or even a sealed pcv setup will reduce windage improving power and emissions as well
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby Rick » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:12 pm

It’s weird, I would stomp on it in 3rd gear, once I reach to the top of rpms and let go of throttle is when she will smoke (smell) oil, other wise half throttle etc no smoke! I’m gonna do another compression check tomorrow and find out but could it be since I’m completly off the throttle is when vacuum is sucking it up?
Thanks y’all for the answer, will eventually get to the bottom of it
Rick
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Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:29 am
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Name: Richard
Vehicle Information: 1990 mustang lx, A9L, QH TP
LC-2

Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby dleach1407 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:34 pm

If you are getting oil when you are at high rpm decel, valve guides and seals would be my first guess but I guess its possible it could be the PCV system picking up oil. Usually when guides and valves seals are bad, you get smoking during extended idle periods and initial startup. Decipha, what say you?
dleach1407
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Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:13 pm
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mustang T5 CBAZA/T4M2 Moates QH BE or TpRT
331 10.2:1 compression, TFS 11r 190 56cc heads
HPX MAF 3.25 OD tube with SaxonPC air straightener
F303 Cam, 1.6 Miller Mid-Lift rockers
T5 with an XTD clutch that somehow holds my power
80lb Dekas, Stock lines and rails 340LPH in tank
Minor upgraded T5 with counter gear stiffening plate
76mm On3 turbo, HP hotside, Custom coldside
560WHP and 606TQ 8lbs tapering to 6 91 octane
27degrees total timing.
Vehicle 2 Information: 1957 Ford F100
Mustang II front suspension -done
C-notched rear frame - done
Luxury ECU using RZASA - have
Fuel injected explorer 302 - have
4r70W -have

Lots of stuff planned including air bags and twin 55mm turbos.

Re: oil seperator kit?

Unread postby decipha » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:47 am

id say if you suspect its the pcv to just disconnect it temporarily and see if it still happens you'd find out real quick.
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decipha
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Posts: 17845
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer


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