Getting Started... tuning my cbaza car

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CBAZA, CDAN4, CRAJ0, CVAF1, FBGI0, OMAE2, RZASA

Getting Started... tuning my cbaza car

Unread postby pancakeshake » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:40 pm

I am starting a new tune (first time).

http://www.efidynotuning.com/scaling.htm

I am in the scaling sections and trying to figure out how to scale my injectors? High / low slope and breakpoint? I have Deka 60# injectors.

Also, how important is the AIR_MAN_VOL function? I have no idea what my volume is. Its a "Speedmaster Shootout EFI" manifold. Carb style intake with an elbow for the intake pipe.
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Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:35 pm

follow the details in the scaling write up

air manifold volume has nothing to do with the actual intake manifold, its the modeling for transient fuel, you can leave it be until you get your tune dialed in
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:32 am

OK so I went though everything with I believe was a fine toothed comb. Using your T4M2 tune, I adjusted values to scale properly.

The car starts, but its very rough (as to be expected I suppose). I made a simple gauge screen in TunerProRT so I could attempt to see whats going on, but most of the gauges dont work. I assume I have something wrong on the software side? RPM, ECT, ACT, MAF Voltage, Battery Voltage, TPS... All don't change and read wither 0 or -2.

The title bar of Tuner Pro reads... Is the XDF and ADX correct for a T4M0 ecu?

TunerPro RT - T4M3.bin | XDF File - CBAZA_181109.xdf |ADX File - cbaza_181112.adx | XDL File - garage.xdl

Added the tune file and the data log. The log is just me starting the car in the garage for a few seconds, not sure how much or if it helps at all.

Tuning is kicking my ass right now.
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Name: Pat
Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:51 pm

did u enabke datalogging in the tune?
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:38 pm

decipha wrote:did u enabke datalogging in the tune?


If you are asking if the .bin patched, then yes, it is.

I changed some of the gauges around and I was able to see a few more things. RPM being the one I was shooting for (just for a sanity check that things were working).

I have attached another test start (test2.xdl)

After the car could barley hold an idle on its own I hopped out just to check things out and noticed the drivers side headers looked really hot. Just bumping the throttle plate with my hand I was able to see the drivers side header start glowing red, while the other side did not. What in the heck would cause one side to be worse than the other?

Do I have a plugged up fuel line maybe?
Is the ECU capable of changing the fueling on just the drivers side injectors??
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Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:39 pm

glowing header is not fueling its timing, the spark is heavily retarded
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
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94 5spd Rionda
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:58 am

decipha wrote:glowing header is not fueling its timing, the spark is heavily retarded


Any tips where to look first? I'm using the T4M2 base tune.
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Name: Pat
Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:06 pm

u need to verify timing

verify tdc with a piston stop and verify the balancer matches / hasn't spun

verify base timing is 10 dbtdc with the spout out
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
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00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:45 am

decipha wrote:u need to verify timing

verify tdc with a piston stop and verify the balancer matches / hasn't spun


Sometimes you just need that extra smack in the head form someone…

My balancer has 3 sets of timing marks, I timed the engine to 10°… just the wrong one. I was probably 40° ATDC. I noticed this after manually checking TDC with a piston stop. Thanks!

I popped my old chip back in and badda-bing, fired right up and ran.

SO, I’m on the road again (on my old tune) but I still want to dive into this tuning wizardry. Thanks for pointing me to the right sanity check. I’m sure there will be 1,208,330 more questions regarding the tune.
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Name: Pat
Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:25 am

cool happy to hear your back in business
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93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
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00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:56 pm

Update:

I plugged my QH back into the car and started it up with my "T4M3" tune that is based off your custom tune. Car starts and runs with some help, and will hold a rough idle decent once warm.

I have attached the data log of the warm idle I was able to produce.

I do not have an IAC currently wired in. However, using the "NUBASE" function I am able to change the idle. It can make it to about 600RPM before it coughs out, and up to around 1000RPM (it wont take anything more than 1000RPM). How is the engine able to control the idle with no IAC wired in?

On that same topic, does anyone know which prong in the IAC gets the signal wire and which prong gets the +12V? My new connector just has 2 white wires.

Image
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Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:05 am

spark
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
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00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:55 pm

Step by step, piece by piece, getting there!

I got my IAC valve wired in and its working. It surges the idle a bit, but I assume thats to be expected with a base tune.

The video below shows the idle at a warm engine temp. The "wideband AFR" and "wideband Lambda" are actual readings coming from the MTX wideband gauge I have installed in my car. The LAMBSE gauges are direct from the ECM.

Few questions:
- Which HEGO is the correct one to be looking at? I assume HEGO2 as it is the one jumping above and below 0.4v
- After a rev the engine, my LAMBSE1 goes to 0.750 and stays there for exactly 1 minute. (video time 1:11-2:11 and 2:42-3:42). I'm just curious why it does that. What parameter sets that 60 seconds? Should I change it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PleL00 ... e=youtu.be

Next up is this graph I made using paused data points from the data log. I did a few data points at each step where I held the throttle at roughly 1,000 rpm increases. It looks like the actual LABMBSE and the lambda read by my physical gauge are at least linear to one another. This means I just need to get my MAF curve and injector slopes dialed in correct?

https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/ ... Myc-caZD3C
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Name: Pat
Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:39 pm

surging idle is usually due to fuel not dialed in

u have to look at both hegos as they are each bank

if it goes to .75 lambda then the hego is reporting lean and the ecu is adding fuel to get it to switch, nothing u can adjust for u need to dial in your fuel or fix your hego issues

yep need to dial in your fuel
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:12 pm

decipha wrote:
u have to look at both hegos as they are each bank



Any reason they are reporting such different values? Just a bad sensor?

decipha wrote:
yep need to dial in your fuel


So next step is to follow your write up on dialing in fuel with low load street driving and dial in the MAF curve and tweak the injector slopes to make the LAMBSE1 and 2 to match my wide bands lambda reading...?
pancakeshake
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Name: Pat
Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:32 pm

u have to determine that as the tuner, if the banks are far apart u need to investigate check for misfires vac leaks etc...

if u have good injector data dial in the maf
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:59 am

decipha wrote: if u have good injector data dial in the maf


Do you or anyone have good data for the slopes / breakpoints for Deka #60 injectors?
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Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:45 pm

its on the homepage with all the published injector data under reference
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:56 pm

Im trying to make sense of my O2 sensor readings.

NOTE: All of this is done at a warm idle. Wide band consistently reads very lean (18-20 AFR)

I thought maybe my HEGO1 was bad as it was not reacting much. It was just reporting lean all the time while my other O2 sensor was bouncing all around. I bought a new O2 sensor to allow me to start with a clean slate and tried every variation of new / old sensors and determined that all the sensors are doing the same thing (working).

The HEGO1 (passenger side) located right next to the turbo flange, has little to no reaction during idle. It does however "blip" and react to a quick tap of the throttle. It goes between 0 and 0.8 volts for a quick second then drops back down to low voltage reading. If the throttle is held it just quickly reacts and goes back to reading very lean and stays there.

HEGO2 (drivers side) bounces around between 0 and 0.8v with a perfect trendline on 0.4v. This is during the initial startup where LAMBSE1 and LAMBSE2 are equal to one another. You can see that after a few throttle taps is starts reporting high (0.8v) all the time.

The picture shown is trying to show that both O2 sensors are pretty opposite of one another but when the throttle is tapped, the two sensors start to agree and converge on 0.4v and the reported AFR from my wideband drops to match (15 AFR). Once that split second passes, the O2 sensors go back to where they were and stay there.

I thought I read somewhere that LAMBSE1 was a good indication for being in closed loop or not. You can see that it is STUCK at 0.750 (open loop?) until I blip the throttle. Once I tap the throttle LAMBSE1 jumps for a second (indicating closed loop?) and the O2 sensors agree with one another, and my AFR drops.

What the heck is going on. Before I take the car on the road I just want my O2 sensors to agree with one another if and when im on closed loop.

Any and all tips are welcome as I am clueless at this point.

Image
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Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:19 pm

are your o2 a enslrs swapped?

does one hego go lean and the other go rich axxoeding to what the other lambse is commanding?

if u have a sibgle turbo then hego2 needs to be disabled

read the pre tune info and hego write ups
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:02 pm

decipha wrote:are your o2 a enslrs swapped?


What the heck is that haha?

decipha wrote:if u have a sibgle turbo then hego2 needs to be disabled


I went and disabled HEGO2.

After that I didn't see much change, but my fuel isn't all that close anyway so I didn't expect to.

Considering I was still crazy lean, I tried changing values in my MAF curve (FN036) to see what affect it had on the AFR. I didn't see any change while making small or drastic changes.

I moved onto my high /low slopes for my injectors. My scaled value for 60# which was 34.75. I started dropping that number until I had my AFR right around 15. I ended up with a high slope of 24.

I was able to log my LAMBSE1 and compare it to my actual lambda value on my AFR gauge and see that they trend the same direction, but they are off by a percentage.

Here is what I am planning to do next...

- Leave adjusted injector slopes at 24
- Take to car out for a light cruise with boost disabled
- Log data while increasing up to redline (2nd gear) holding at each 1000 RPM interval
- Use data log to compare LAMBSE1 to my logged AFR Lambda value
- Adjust MAF curve value by the percentage it was off (calculated from the step above), at each respective RPM value

Does that sound legit? Am I allowed to make such a drastic adjustment to my injectors like that?

Thanks!
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Name: Pat
Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:00 pm

that was supposed to say sensors i am using puffin browser and everything is asterik out like a password lol

no u should not have to change the slopes that much for siemens deka injrctors u should not have to change it at all

go set it back how u had it and just kick up the maf and dial it in
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:31 am

decipha wrote:go set it back how u had it and just kick up the maf and dial it in


I decreased all my MAF values looking for a change...ooops.

I used the provided voltage /flow rate values from SCT for my MAF curve. I assume each setup is vastly different hence my MAF curve error %?
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Name: Pat
Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:28 pm

part of tuning is dialing in the maf, if it was as simple as dropping the maf transfer in and driving off custom tuning wouldn't exist
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby motorhead1991 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:41 pm

I've had to add to the MAF on a stock sensor because the owner was pulling air through it via a turbo...

I told him to be easy on it until we can get the backflow under control for his Pro-M sensor.
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Vehicle 2 Information: Stock 1990 Ranger. ICM relocation, Volvo 31lb Bosch injectors, custom tune, e85

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:22 pm

decipha wrote:part of tuning is dialing in the maf, if it was as simple as dropping the maf transfer in and driving off custom tuning wouldn't exist


Took the car out for a drive!

So I did some light driving out to some straight roads in the county where I could get on it a bit.

With my turbo inlet disconnected, I did 3 different pulls.

First: Second gear up to about 4700 RPM. I went steady and never got to WOT, so it appears everything stayed in closed loop. Which it should (?). From 2 volts up to around 2.5 volts on the MAF my LAMBSE averaged 1.19 and my Lambda was averaged 1.03.

Second: I did a WOT pull in second up to about 5800 RPM. My PERLOAD averaged 0.929 during the pull. LAMBSE dropped right to 0.875 and held firm.

Third. I did a WOT pull in third up to about 4800 RPM (caught up quick to the other car…) My PERLOAD averaged 0.961 during the pull. My LAMBSE dropped right to 0.875 and held firm.

Using the two WOT pulls, I took a few data points at each section of the MAF curve and found the error below.

Example:
MAFv | LAMBSE | Lambda | %Error
2.23 | 0.875 | 1.025 | 15.00 %

Data Points:
MAFv | %Error
2.00 | 27.03%
2.25 | 15.53%
2.50 | 10.07%
2.75 | 4.42%
3.00 | -3.50%

Please confirm:

IF I am reading this correctly, it appears I am LEAN on the low and approaching RICH on the top end. This means I would need to MULTIPLY my low end values by the percentage found (At 2.00 MAFV, I need to multiply my curve value by 1.27) and DIVIDE my high end values by the percentage found (At 3.00MAFV, I need to divide my curve value by 1.03). I continue that process until things look good and my LAMBSE and LAMBDA match. From there, closed loop and KAMs take care of dialing in fuel for closed loop operations.

Seriously, this forum is boss. Thanks so much for everything thus far. You have literally brought my car back from the dead!
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Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:06 pm

on your first outing if lambse's were up to 1.19 removing 19% then you need to remove that 19% before you can do anything else. Once you take that 19% out of the maf curve at that specific mafv you then need to repeat your attempt keeping it in closed loop so you can verify that the lambse's stayed near 1 in closed loop indicating no more fuel error

you should never average anything in tuning, hold it at the specific mafv point you want to dial in and once fueling stabilizes calculate the error. Apply that error correction to your maf and repeat to verify there is no more error.

you have contradicting information. According to your 1st you were 19% rich at 2.00 to 2.50 mafv. But then on your 2nd when you went WOT you were some how 15% lean at the same mafv.

I am assuming you are getting your lambda value from your wideband? if so, you need to verify the wideband is functioning correctly because it sounds as though it is not or you have something else going on.
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:18 am

Am I better off cruising in closed loop and dialing fuel using my LMABSE / Lambda reading to dial fuel rather than doing it in open loop with WOT pulls?
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Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:08 pm

yep
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:15 pm

OK. So I noticed my fuel pressure was around 35 PSI. I decided to save a copy of my current tune, bump my pressure to 40psi, and adjust my current MAF curve BACK to the recommended flows from SCT. Doing so I "started from scratch" with the fueling.

So I went out for a long-ish drive tonight. I stuck with the "closed loop method" mentioned above. I did a data log --- pulled over --- adjusted fuel --- repeat. I was able to watch, in real time, my fuel dramatically improve. From 1.0-2.5 MAFv I was seeing less than 5% fuel error after a few renditions of the method mentioned prior.

On my way home, I did two "WOT" pulls in 3rd. I ended up lifting pretty quick into the pulls because I was seeing high 16s into 17 AFR's.

When I held my MAFv logs at set voltages, I had impressively dialed AFR's. But when I did my WOT pulls I was sitting at an average error of 1.2% error (Lambda-LAMBSE+KAMRF) on BOTH attempts. A note, my LAMBSE never dropped below 0.95 on either pull. Any ideas why I didn't jump to the requested 0.875 LAMBSE (via the FN1362 table)?

Getting there! Thanks again for all the help, this is killer!
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Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:11 am

was perload high enough to command that .875? if lambse's were at 0.95 that would suggest you were around .80 perload

oddly enough that jives with your 20% lean

no doubt your wot mafv was higher than your cruising mafv so your cruising fuel dial in has nothing to do with wot

sounds like you need to go kick up the maf 20% at those mafv
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:22 pm

decipha wrote:was perload high enough to command that .875?


Good call, duh. I checked the log and I the highest I hit was .85 on the first and .86 on the second. Both of these occurred at 2.3 MAFv.

decipha wrote:sounds like you need to go kick up the maf 20% at those mafv


"So I went out for a long-ish drive tonight. I stuck with the "closed loop method" mentioned above. I did a data log --- pulled over --- adjusted fuel --- repeat. I was able to watch, in real time, my fuel dramatically improve. From 1.0-2.5 MAFv I was seeing less than 5% fuel error after a few renditions of the method mentioned prior."

My fuel error from 1.0-2.5 MAFv is looking really good if I gradually climb the RPMs. My KAM dances right around 1.00 during a steady pull. They only go really lean when I stab it.
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Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby decipha » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:04 pm

usually going stupid lean on the stab is due to junk injectors, where did you get them from? how much did you pay for them? are you positive they are genuine siemens?

how long does it stay lean? its odd that you reach the same mafv at wot that you do while cruising

for the time being, go divide the manifold volume AIR_MAN_VOL by 4 to give it more pump shot, see if it helps and if need be go to the tseif table FN1321 and highlight the last 3 columns (180,210,240 degrees) and multiply it by 3

that should alleviate any transient issues and let you dial it on in

how stable is your mafv? are you sure you don't have any fuel pressure dropping?
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Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby pancakeshake » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:51 pm

decipha wrote:usually going stupid lean on the stab is due to junk injectors, where did you get them from? how much did you pay for them? are you positive they are genuine siemens?


I got them from a dude over on Corral.net. I paid $300 for the set. He is a legit guy on the forum and seller.

decipha wrote:how long does it stay lean? its odd that you reach the same mafv at wot that you do while cruising


Hard to say. I only got up to about 3300 RPM before I lifted. I was seeing numbers too lean for me to feel comfortable. It was at 16 and increased to 17....but it did drop about 2 seconds before I lifted. It dropped down to around 12 before lifting. Sounds like I need to grow a pair and keep my foot in it for the pull.

decipha wrote:how stable is your mafv? are you sure you don't have any fuel pressure dropping?


It seems pretty solid. When holding my MAFv at a set voltage during my test pulls, it holds pretty well. +/- 0.02 volts as I hold it. I DO have the FPR vacuum port hooked up to my manifold as I typically run a turbo.

decipha wrote:for the time being, go divide the manifold volume AIR_MAN_VOL by 4 to give it more pump shot, see if it helps and if need be go to the tseif table FN1321 and highlight the last 3 columns (180,210,240 degrees) and multiply it by 3

that should alleviate any transient issues and let you dial it on in


Will do

Is open loop commanded by the TPS reading a certain value (high voltage)? Or is it more to due with the load reading (PERLOAD)?
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Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started...

Unread postby motorhead1991 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:09 pm

pancakeshake wrote:Is open loop commanded by the TPS reading a certain value (high voltage)? Or is it more to due with the load reading (PERLOAD)?


The answer to that is "yes".

Both TPS and load determine the transition point, and in fact you can change said transition on a per-ECT basis.
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Re: Getting Started... tuning my cbaza car

Unread postby decipha » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:12 pm

for $300 u got fakes I can't even buy them for that price direct from the largest Siemens distributor
contact him and find out who his supplier is

if its going lean theres no reason to stay in it unless you want to hurt the engine

open loop is entered due to both throttle and load either can toss it in to open loop.

the tp wot threshold scalar and the wot threshold function toss her in to open loop based on throttle
fn320a tosses her in to open loop based on perload
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
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Re: Getting Started... tuning my cbaza car

Unread postby pancakeshake » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:15 pm

decipha wrote:for $300 u got fakes


They were lightly used.

decipha wrote:the tp wot threshold scalar and the wot threshold function toss her in to open loop based on throttle
fn320a tosses her in to open loop based on perload


I have my FN320A table set at 0.88. Does this mean anything over 0.88 load forces open loop?

I have my TP WOT Breakpoint (THBP2) set at 600. Does this mean anything over 600 on the TPS forces open loop?

My WOT Threshold -vs- RPM (FN513) is set at...
16384 | 550
1500 | 550
1300 | 400
0 | 400

Does this force open loop at 400 TPS @ 1300 RPM and 550 @ 1500 RPM?

I did some more driving today and things looks pretty good. I was able to really get on it and get into open loop by getting above 0.9 PERLOAD. However, I was only able to get into open loop that way. The methods mentioned above didn't seem to do anything (IF im understanding the functions correctly). Above 0.9 PERLOAD, LAMBSE dropped to 0.875 and the LAMBDA values seemed to match well.

Is it possible for the KAMs to be messing with my math as they are correcting my corrections? Is there a way to clean the KAMs and start with a clean slate? Is it worth doing?
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Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started... tuning my cbaza car

Unread postby decipha » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:00 am

correct, "CL Max Load Allowed - FN320A"
when you hover over it or press f10 the comments pop up and says
FN320A - Use to set the minimum load% required to permit entry into open loop operation according to ECT.
Open loop mode is entered after the 'Load% Min for O/L vs ECT Time Delay' (aka HLDTM1) time period has been exceeded.

correct

correct fn513 says (forces OL) in the title

u can see if kam's are at 1 at wot but yes you can clear them, simply turn the key on engine off enable the kam clear patch then disable it
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
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98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
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00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
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Re: Getting Started... tuning my cbaza car

Unread postby pancakeshake » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:59 pm

decipha wrote:FN320A - Use to set the minimum load% required to permit entry into open loop operation according to ECT.


I have this set to 0.88 @ 242 and below. 244 and above is 0. Does this mean anytime I hit 0.88 PERLOAD I command open loop?

If yes, when it jumps into open loop where does it get the commanded LAMBSE value from? I cant imagine its the base fuel table, as 0.88 on the table is still commanding 1.00 LAMBSE.

decipha wrote:correct fn513 says (forces OL) in the title


My WOT Threshold -vs- RPM (FN513) is set at...
16384 | 550
1500 | 550
1300 | 400
0 | 400


My TP is 150 at idle, with my foot off the gas. I verified my TP values sweep up to almost 1000 with my foot all the way down. Im not a lead foot, so Im usually pretty hesitant on my pedal even when going "WOT" hahaha.

This table is saying anytime my pedal gets to 550 @1300 RPM (400+150 = 550 TP REL, correct?) I should jump into open loop, correct?

I have my TP WOT Breakpoint (THBP2) set at 600. Does this mean anything over 600 on the TPS forces open loop?

Again, this is stating that ANYTIME my TPS sees 750 (600+150 for the relative TP) I hop into open loop(?)

For both of these TP REL scenarios, where does the LAMBSE get pulled from when in open loop? Similar to what I mentioned above, I cant imagine it is the base fuel table.
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Vehicle Information: '83 Capri: 351w Roller, 3550, Intercooled 70mm On3, GT40X, F303, Shootout EFI, 60# Deka, BA5000, McLeod 75307.

Current: Chipped T4M0, 503/573. Runs between 9.5-11.5 for AFR.
Project: QH tune with TunerPro, add IAC, cleanup my cold start issues, smooth out tune

Re: Getting Started... tuning my cbaza car

Unread postby decipha » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:04 am

youfn513 the wot threshold doesn't use TP it uses TPREL so at closed throttle TPREL should be 0

1000-150 == 850 TPREL at WOT

lambse gets pulled from perload, so whatever perload your at it gets yanked from the base fuel table, everything is interpolated
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

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