Is DFSO causing this? I think it's off...

Non-vehicle specific forum for tuning all ford ecu's 1994-2004, including the 1994-1995 Mustang, 93-98 Mark VIII, 99+ F-150, 99-04 Mustang, 03-04 Cobra, 99-03 Harley Davidson and Lightning F-150

FBFG2, CBAZA, CZAJL, and all EEC-V

Is DFSO causing this? I think it's off...

Unread postby GT_Rich » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:57 am

Alright, I'm sure you know the story by now - '97 Cobra in a '62 Comet. No speed sensor or clutch safety switch. Both turned off in tune. Started with a ZXA5 base tune.

I believe I have DFSO disabled by setting load and rpm such that in can never engage. However, for DCFSO, the only settings i have available in the strategy are MPH based. I set it so it can't engage below 127.5 MPH, but I think it's still engaging. After a couple seconds of throttle off decel, my gauge will peg lean. This is at VMAF values that are otherwise perfect. When I roll back into throttle, my air fuel ratio comes right back to stoich. See attached log. This was for a WOT pull, but at about 20 seconds you'll see I was coasting down a hill and Lambda went to 1.52.

My only thought is to band aid fix this by setting an appropriate min PW. Any other ideas? This is DCFSO, right?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
GT_Rich
General Poster
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:16 am
Name: Rich
Vehicle Information: 65 Mustang Vert, A9L, Moates QH, Innovate LM-2 WB
302 w/ TF heads, F-cam, ported GT-40 lower/tubular upper, Vortech T-trim s/c, 60 lb/hr inj, Methanol injection, PMAS HPX blow-thru MAF, 400 lph pump.
Vehicle 2 Information: 92 Mustang GT, A9L, Moates QH, Innovate LM-2 WB
302 w/ TF heads, B-cam, ported GT-40 lower/tubular upper, Powerdyne BD-11 s/c, 42 lb/hr inj, 75 mm Pro-M MAF, 255 lph pump.
Vehicle 3 Information: 95 Lightning, ICY1, Moates QH, Innovate LC-1 WB
393 w/ TF heads, custom cam, GT-40 lower/tubular upper, 30 lb/hr inj, speed density. E4OD trans.
Additional Vehicles: 62 Mercury Comet, LLX4, Moates QH
32V 4.6L, IMRC delete, stock rebuild

Re: Can I turn off DCFSO without MPH input?

Unread postby GT_Rich » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:08 am

The more I look at this and compare my tune using both Derek and Adam's strategies, maybe I've asked the question wrong. Adam has certain things labeled as DCFSO when Derek appears to properly explain them. Maybe my better question is WTF is going on between elapsed time of 16.71 (throttle closes) to 20.2 seconds (dead lean) in the datalog I posted in first tune.

This is an open loop datalog where my fueling was still ~5% rich at idle. I close the throttle, LAMBDA goes to around .95 and then linearly drifts to dead lean over around 3.5 seconds. During this time, MAF voltage doesn't do much of anything (1.2-1.3V...both decently tuned) and LAMBSE is 1.00. I think my tune parameters have DFSO disabled:
Lowest ECT for DFSO set to 254F
Lowest RPM for DFSO set to 6,000 rpm
Highest Load to enter DFSO set to 0
Closed throttle time to enter DFSO set to 32 seconds (max)

What am I missing?

Thanks guys. I'm going to edit my original post to change the title.
GT_Rich
General Poster
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:16 am
Name: Rich
Vehicle Information: 65 Mustang Vert, A9L, Moates QH, Innovate LM-2 WB
302 w/ TF heads, F-cam, ported GT-40 lower/tubular upper, Vortech T-trim s/c, 60 lb/hr inj, Methanol injection, PMAS HPX blow-thru MAF, 400 lph pump.
Vehicle 2 Information: 92 Mustang GT, A9L, Moates QH, Innovate LM-2 WB
302 w/ TF heads, B-cam, ported GT-40 lower/tubular upper, Powerdyne BD-11 s/c, 42 lb/hr inj, 75 mm Pro-M MAF, 255 lph pump.
Vehicle 3 Information: 95 Lightning, ICY1, Moates QH, Innovate LC-1 WB
393 w/ TF heads, custom cam, GT-40 lower/tubular upper, 30 lb/hr inj, speed density. E4OD trans.
Additional Vehicles: 62 Mercury Comet, LLX4, Moates QH
32V 4.6L, IMRC delete, stock rebuild

Re: Is DFSO causing this? I think it's off...

Unread postby GT_Rich » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:30 am

An update to my own thread that nobody is reading. I pulled my wideband and put it back in closed loop. All is well, except for this darn “DFSO behavior”. The problem I have is, with no clutch switch and no speed sensor, if I clutch in during a DFSO event after dashpot has decayed it falls on its face and stalls.

In closed loop, as soon as it begins the “DFSO behavior”, LAMBSE will go richer and richer trying to recover it but it can’t. So closed loop is fighting whatever is happening.

As a hack fix I set my minimum pulse width to my value at idle and it seems to have fixed the problem, at least when warm. When cold, I need the min PW to be higher than what it is, and I don’t have that option.
GT_Rich
General Poster
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:16 am
Name: Rich
Vehicle Information: 65 Mustang Vert, A9L, Moates QH, Innovate LM-2 WB
302 w/ TF heads, F-cam, ported GT-40 lower/tubular upper, Vortech T-trim s/c, 60 lb/hr inj, Methanol injection, PMAS HPX blow-thru MAF, 400 lph pump.
Vehicle 2 Information: 92 Mustang GT, A9L, Moates QH, Innovate LM-2 WB
302 w/ TF heads, B-cam, ported GT-40 lower/tubular upper, Powerdyne BD-11 s/c, 42 lb/hr inj, 75 mm Pro-M MAF, 255 lph pump.
Vehicle 3 Information: 95 Lightning, ICY1, Moates QH, Innovate LC-1 WB
393 w/ TF heads, custom cam, GT-40 lower/tubular upper, 30 lb/hr inj, speed density. E4OD trans.
Additional Vehicles: 62 Mercury Comet, LLX4, Moates QH
32V 4.6L, IMRC delete, stock rebuild

Re: Is DFSO causing this? I think it's off...

Unread postby decipha » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:11 am

odd that lambses would be moving during dfso they should be locked at the dfso lambda scalar value

just simply disable dfso if you suspect its giving you issues, odd that it would enable with no vss though

for good measure go kick up the min rpm to allow dfso +1500 rpm and that should prevent it from being an issue if it is

that doesnt sound like your problem at all from what you describe at the minpw scalar isn't used in dfso when the injectors are off

sounds like the fuel needs to be dialed in down low, don't forget to adjust the maf below the idle mafv point as well
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15307
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: Is DFSO causing this? I think it's off...

Unread postby GT_Rich » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:06 pm

Well, if lambses are locked during DFSO, then this isn’t DFSO. I already have min rpm set to 6,000 so it shouldn’t be DFSO.

Fuel is dialed in. I mean, really really good. I have idle set to 800 rpm and intentionally idled the car down to about 500 to get lower MAFV values. Regardless, when this issue happens, MAFV is still above idle, but load is lower than idle.

I’ve been running my min PW setting at 0, per your recommendations. However, I see Siemens lists it at 1.5 ms for their 60s:
http://www.siemensdeka.com/wp-content/u ... 4961-2.jpg

Also, it looks like the % error gets really bad below 1.5. When these situations happen, my demanded PW is around 0.6 to 0.8. What’s your experience in that range? Maybe clipping PW at 1.0 or 1.2 is the right thing to do?
GT_Rich
General Poster
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:16 am
Name: Rich
Vehicle Information: 65 Mustang Vert, A9L, Moates QH, Innovate LM-2 WB
302 w/ TF heads, F-cam, ported GT-40 lower/tubular upper, Vortech T-trim s/c, 60 lb/hr inj, Methanol injection, PMAS HPX blow-thru MAF, 400 lph pump.
Vehicle 2 Information: 92 Mustang GT, A9L, Moates QH, Innovate LM-2 WB
302 w/ TF heads, B-cam, ported GT-40 lower/tubular upper, Powerdyne BD-11 s/c, 42 lb/hr inj, 75 mm Pro-M MAF, 255 lph pump.
Vehicle 3 Information: 95 Lightning, ICY1, Moates QH, Innovate LC-1 WB
393 w/ TF heads, custom cam, GT-40 lower/tubular upper, 30 lb/hr inj, speed density. E4OD trans.
Additional Vehicles: 62 Mercury Comet, LLX4, Moates QH
32V 4.6L, IMRC delete, stock rebuild

Re: Is DFSO causing this? I think it's off...

Unread postby decipha » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:51 pm

if your sure your fuel is dialed in and all else is fine then your only option is to reduce the low slope to the same value as the high slope to richen up the bottom of the maf, dial the maf back in and if need be start kicking up the offset while leaning the maf out until it stops leaning out on decel
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15307
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce


Return to EEC-V & SN95 Tuning

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests