GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

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GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:11 pm

This is more of a dip the toe on the water post as I am getting started tuning my 1992 LX Convertible. I have a number of objectives with tuning, in particular adjusting the overall advance for the GT40Ps and improving cold startup. But as someone who loves learning new tech, a huge part of the appeal is just figuring out how it all works. Attached is a chart from an initial run after switching from A9M to A9L and using the EGR Valve Position input for my PLX wideband. Fuel pressure is still not adjusted (32psi) and initial timing is high (13degrees). I will also switch to A9L2 after I am satisfied that I have played enough with the stock config to satisfy my need to learn.

Image

No questions for now, I am just in awe of both the tuning and logging ability. I have expected this level of EFI tuning should have been available all along.....very glad that the market now supplies it. Overall timing and cold start will be next. I have already removed the emissions components since this initial run.
snowdave
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Posts: 13
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Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby decipha » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:28 pm

the qh has been available for the past 9 years and prior to that they had the tweecer and the eec tuner with similar capabilities

according to your graph you are severely over advanced

the best way to learn is to just play with it and make changes to see how it responds
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Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:12 pm

No doubt it has been around a while. I have been away from cars a very long time as I have a garage filled with motorcycles. Switching back now as my kids are getting into it and a recent accident left me with a broken back and somewhat skittish on the bikes.

Not surprised the timing is too high. I think the main difference between A9M & A9L was taking a bit of timing out and according to the MBT table, the GT40Ps don't need as much timing as stock heads. I always felt some minor pinging under load while going up hills, etc, but oddly that seems completely gone with just the removal of EGR.

At this point, the drivability is still very good so I can focus on minor tweaks before heading to a dyno and potentially adding a supercharger. I have roughly two years to fine tune the engine in the convertible before it gets transplanted to a Factory Five Roadster.
snowdave
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 am
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby decipha » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:07 am

no need in a dyno

first you need to get that timing dialed in before you hurt the engine
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:32 am

I presume SAFTOT is a calculation of 10+timing added by the ECU? So my chart is immediately off by 3 degrees due to the base timing. I am also planning on pulling the plug to find TDC as the drivability is not too bad even at its current advance.
snowdave
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 am
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby decipha » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:05 pm

yea saftot is spark total which is what the engine would get if you had your distributor set correctly

the mbt reference chart on the homepage will help you significantly with spark
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:37 pm

Started setting base timing today and noticed that TDC is marked on the balancer with a white marker and is not in the original location with a groove. I pulled No. 1 plug and the mark is pretty close, but I don't think perfect. Without pulling the pan to watch the crank rotation, is there a good way to get exact TDC? I watched through the spark plug hole and attempted the old pencil trick, but don't think either of those will get me as accurate as I would like. Am I being too anal about this as it seems I can move the balancer 1-2 inches around the cirumference and still be at TDC.
snowdave
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 am
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby decipha » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:52 pm

sounds like your balancer has slipped, best to replace it

best to verify tdc with a piston stop
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decipha
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Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:12 pm

decipha wrote:....according to your graph you are severely over advanced....


You weren't kidding. The timing was set at 28, not 13! The balancer had not slipped, but was marked at 15 instead of TDC. I verified TDC on the new balancer with an engine stop plug and it is now set to 10 initial. Will take it out for some testing tomorrow. I am surprised it ran as well as it did being so over-advanced.
snowdave
General Poster
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 am
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby decipha » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:44 pm

cool

should run much stonger with the timing in the ballpark now
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15660
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:23 am

I am either on the wrong track with this tune or it is a case of things get worse before they get better. Dropping timing from 28 initial to 10 initial lowered idle from 1200 to 800 with a slightly more pronounced surge. No data on performance, but seat-of-the-pants feels slower (which may mean nothing). Then I bumped fuel pressure from 32 to 55. Vacuum did not bring it back down from there. At 55 the idle is massively surging and the exhaust is black and stinks. I did notice zero fuel pressure before and after engine running so I presume the regulator does not have a check-valve.

I may take a stab at the A9L2 just for grins or do some data-logging to see if I can poke around with my current tune. This may push me closer to biting the bullet and getting a remote tune even before the supercharger. Though I like to tinker & learn, I do get pissed when my car runs/drives like crap :D
snowdave
General Poster
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 am
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:01 pm

That didn't take long. As you said, A9L2 is a much closer starting point. I switched to it, made the basic changes you suggest and the engine is much happier. It did bump idle up just slightly and the exhaust still stinks, but I suspect I am now on the right track. I like the idea that injectors & MAF are now accurate and I can start tuning from here. It is mildly amusing that my idle now sounds like a choo-choo even though stable and no longer surging. The wideband is still indicating I am lean, but not dangerously so.
snowdave
General Poster
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 am
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:59 am

Woohoo. First drive since changing timing, setting fuel pressure, loading A9L2 and resetting KAM. Initial fire-up and idle are slightly unhappy, but once it switches to closed loop it is a hell of a lot closer than ever before. First time I have ever had good pulling power through all of 3rd gear. There is some backfiring if I come off throttle with the revs high, but not too bad. I now have a crap ton of logs to review and expect to spend several days pouring over them. I also suspect my fuel pressure regulator is shot as the vacuum line doesn't seem to make a difference. I will be checking vacuum and the diaphragm soon. As decipha says, A9L2 does seem to be a very good starting point for tuning. Thanks for all of your work and instruction. I am starting to look forward to this again. A good tune might just even delay the need for heads, stroker and blower......maybe.
snowdave
General Poster
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 am
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:48 am

Much flatter and more linear:

Image
snowdave
General Poster
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 am
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters

Re: GT40Ps N/A with cam and intake

Unread postby snowdave » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:26 am

Holy cow.....I have been away from this for a very long time. I just saw how cheap turbos have gotten for these Mustangs. My biggest problem is I don't see any reasonable way to use it in the Cobra after the transplant. Seems like I will need to keep hunting/saving for heads and a supercharger.
snowdave
General Poster
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 am
Name: Dave
Vehicle Information: 1992 Ford Mustang LX, GUFB, TunerPro RT, Quarterhorse
GT40Ps
TFS Stage 1 Cam
TFS Intake
30lb Injectors
5-speed
3.73 Gears
70mm Edelbrock TB/EGR
Pro-M 80mm MAF
H-pipe / Flowmasters


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