Getting a new trans

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Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:23 pm

OK, so I think I am finally able to pull the trigger and get a new trans. I have done some thinking about the power my motor puts out and I think it is around 420hp to flywheel. With that said, my plan is to ditch my E4OD and buy a 4r70W from monster transmission. They have one rated to 460 hp that I would get. They can also adapt it for my transfer case.

When I get it I plan to remove my Baumann transmission controller and just have my U4P2 tune control the transmission. The gear ratios on the 4R are a little higher in 1st and second so that may benefit me.

What I have left to find out is about some of the parts I need for the 4R, like if my current cross member will work, I also don't yet know about the speed sensor, that seems to be in the 4R but with the E4OD it isn't my speed sensor is in my diff. Also need to work out cooling lines if any modifications need to be done there. Oh, and drive shafts.

How does this plan sound? Am I missing anything?

I'll probably pull the trigger on this in the next 30 days unless I have a reason not to.

D - would like your assistance in tuning this if you have time.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:49 pm

cross member would need to be modified, sometimes you can flip them around and they line up but otherwise just figure on fabbing up a mount no problem

the speed sensor in the dif goes to your cluster for your speedo doesn't go to the ecu

the vss and oss on the 4r you will need to run to the ecu

the e4 usually has 3/8 lines and the 4r 1/4. You can use a compression fitting adapter ($25 - special order) or you can just use rubber hose and slip it over both ends and done. Be sure to double clamp it on both ends and in a straight piece of line, if the rubber has has a bend with trans fluid going through it they usually let loose over time

driveshaft on the 4r should be about 7 inches longer or so than the e4 since the trans is shorter. If its a long wheel base truck you'll most likely need a 2-piece shaft with a center support bearing. You may be able to find a solid 1-piece aluminum 4" diameter shaft otherwise 2 piece it if its over 63-67 inches or so.

yea no prob
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby SlowBox » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:49 pm

I absolutely would not fuck with Monster Transmission. Do a little research on their product and customer service before you click 'pay' at least. Dan at SilverFox sells 4Rs rated for up to 950ftlbs if you're making big power. I'm about to buy a 4R from a local yard and build it myself.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:17 pm

Interesting you say that...one of the reasons why I am looking remote for a trans is because when I was living on the western side of CO in a small town, there was no way I was going to get my trans locally when I needed one then.

However, you have me thinking in that maybe I can find someone within about 500 miles or so to build me a good one...hmmmm
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:10 pm

The more I think of this the more I ask myself how do I know when I find someone who can build a good trans for my situation?

I think that has been my problem for a while is getting not-good transmissions
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:09 am

a stock rebuild can handle that power no problem
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:44 am

decipha wrote:a stock rebuild can handle that power no problem


I know you have said that in the past and I believe most things you say on here but I am not sure. I have gone through 3 transmissions already and I just want to be sure the one I get can stand up to the power and especially handle the torque when I go WOT.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:09 am

im referring to a 4r, the e4 is weak
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:18 am

decipha wrote:im referring to a 4r, the e4 is weak


I know you were. I also need to find a trans guy who is willing to do this for me. The last guy I talked to is here local, came recommended from the speed shop I have been using for years. I talked to this trans guy at length, more than a few times. He was willing to build me an e4 but not a 4r for my setup.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:01 pm

I went and talked to a local transmission builder that came recommended from the speed shop that assembled my motor. I have not have 1 problem with the speed shop but I have had probmes with the places they have recommended. The first place I asked them for a suggestion of was a local place that was said to know how to tune a EEC-IV. He did a horrible job and I am surprised my motor did not blow on his dyno.

After this I asked decipha to help me tune my motor only by sending logs over the internet, it turned out better than the dyno I think. Love this tune he created for me.

I feel the transmission recommendation from the speed shop is sort of the same way. The transmission guy balked when I said supercharger after we had been talking about a 4r70w. Then he said ie was impossible to get a SBF 4r70w and he wanted to build me a AOD-E. I politely said 'thank you' and left, knowing I would not go back there again.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:47 pm

the 5L explorers came with sbf 4r's as well as the new edge v6 mustangs, any of them will do
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:34 pm

Ya, I know and that sort of worried me about this guy, he just didn't know or maybe didn't want to do it. I dunno.

What ballpark figure would I expect to pay for this trans? If you were buying it, what would you pay?
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:45 pm

no more than $150 at the absolute most
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:15 am

what?? sounds like a used price, don't want a used one
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:55 am

I was referring to a core price for a used good one to either rebuild or use
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:05 am

That makes more sense. Rebuilding is not something I want to experiment with now so I am looking for it to be assembled to where I can install it. You want to build me one?
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:49 am

If I had the time I would but I just dont have enough free time to do it any time soon.

Anyone can rebuild a 4r just go through the rebuild manual and take your time. Its easy nothing difficult to it at all just time consuming.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Thanks for at least considering the offer, I knew it was a long shot. I am not in a position to attempt to rebuild a trans now, I was a few years ago but not now. If it takes me more than 3 days time, which I bet it would take me 30 days, then I will lose money, just like you.

One question I have is about the torque converter. I know Monster Trans isn't suggested but when I called them they did something different, they asked for my cam card to figure out the stall on my torque converter when I told them I had a supercharter on the motor. How is the stall for a converter determined? What should I get?

I found a couple of options for a trans:

I like this one because of the long warranty, from what you said a standard rebuild should handle my power. I am sure they can build me a 4x4 version...need a different output shaft and mount for my transfer case = https://www.bestbuytransmission.com/4r7 ... RbEALw_wcB

This one has a shorter warranty and I would need to see if they can build me a 4x4 version - https://www.transdepot.net/4R70W-Ford-M ... _p_92.html

Kind of leaning towards best buy trans. Haven't found anyone locally who wants to do this.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:12 pm

usually they want the stall about 500 rpm less than peak tq, thats why they are asking the info

with the 4r its not possible to have too high a stall u can simply lock it anytime other than in 1st
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:20 pm

My plan is to order a new trans by the end of the week. I called today to ask about a trans filler tube and it was suggested I find one myself because I don't think the 4r was ever installed in a 92 4x4. So any suggestions as to where to start? Filler tube is critical in determining the right amount of fluid.

Not sure if it matters but before my last e4 took a shit I put a trans pressure gauge in line of the cooling lines. I still have that and can use it for the 4r.

With my other post of putting in an oil cooler, I also thought of putting in an oil temp and trans temp gauge. But not decided on that yet because that might clutter my cockpit too much. I love this truck because it doesn't have seat warmers, outside temp gauges, a clock, rear defrost, and many other luxury things that might seem simple to have now days. So I am still trying to keep it simple.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:06 pm

any filler tube that physically clears things will work, rhey all have the same key in height so long as you get the dipstick that goes with it.

Id look for an f series truck
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:08 pm

I was thinking, with this new trans, I think the next thing to take a dump will be the stock 8.8 rear end. Would that be right?
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:01 am

i wouldn't be concerned with it at your power level

you'd be more likely to break it off roading than from shear power
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:49 pm

Ordered the new trans today, about 4 weeks until delivery.

I remember what you said about tq converter stall in that it can be controlled in all gears except 1st. The tq converter they offer is around 2800-3200 stall but I can upgrade to a 2300-??? stall if I want. I read on line about stall and am beginning to understand it but just not sure what is best.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:46 pm

I'll be removing the third party trans controller and then need to wire for the 4r70w. Do I use the one one the left?
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:45 am

A couple of questions while I wait for my trans to be shipped to me...

Regarding the drive shafts. You said the 4r is about 7" shorter than the e4. Would I be safe with getting new drive shafts based on this or should I measure? There is a place in town that makes drive shafts, plan to go there next week to talk to them.

Previously you said a mark 8 torque converter for $125 from transtar would work. I am going to buy this one (I verified not using the converter that comes with the trans will not void warranty on trans) unless there is another suggestion. I don't want to use what comes with the trans and their upgrade is more expensive.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:35 pm

that depends on what year your trans is or what electrical connector you have in it

no you'll have to put it in and measure it

yea the converter will be fine

you will have to get a new flexplate with the 10.65" torque converter spacing
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:33 pm

D - I just sent you some money via paypal. I mention it here because everyone who reads this should understand how much of a value you provide via this forum. The information you give is something that would cost me a lot more money to get otherwise. Much appreciated.

Don't mean to be a pain but I have a question about the torque converter. Transtar doesn't seem to be sold on line that I can find so I am having trouble finding the right part. From what I have put together I need a FM69C (https://www.transtar1.com/products/torq ... -Converter), does that seem right? Trying to find where I can buy that.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:29 pm

cool i upgraded you again from a premium plus member to a premium elite member, cant get any higher

No thats not the converter you want, you want the F63 converter, heres more details viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1134

thinking about it, all of the trans controllers run on a 10ohm tcc, cbaza and the eec-iv's all use 1 ohm tcc solenoids. You'll have to drop the pan and pull the tcc solenoid out and drop in a new 1 ohm tcc solenoid. Its very simple to do. Your newer trans should have the circuit board in it instead of wiring like the older 4Rs. Simply cut the connector off the older 1 ohm tcc solenoid and plug it in to the circuit board just like the solenoid you removed. It'll all make perfect sense when the time comes.

also note worthy, that prw flexplate i have in that link is for a modular. I recall they make them for the sbf as well as I believe I have two brand new PRW flexplates for a sbf at the house that fedex dropped off last month iirc. For an upcoming project or so i cant recall.

autozone sells the dacco's its a bit more expensive though, might want to check ebay or the like

https://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/tra ... 8354_98491
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:27 am

with regards to "controllers run on a 10ohm tcc, cbaza and the eec-iv's all use 1 ohm tcc solenoids"...will this depend on what year I have for the electrical connector? Meaning, will it be the same for the 92-97 years as it is for the 98-05 years?
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:49 am

the tcc solenoid is independent of years its dependent upon the ecu type

all eec-ivs require a 1 ohm tcc

all eec-v's require a 10 ohm tcc

all aftermarket controllers require a 10 ohm tcc to my knowledge

they are directly interchangeable you simply remove the bolt holding it in remove the tcc and bolt in the new one, u have to drop the pan to get to it tho
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:57 am

called transtar and asked about the F63, they cross referenced that to their part number of FM70. He said it was for the mark 8. Has a flexplate that might work as well.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:01 am

when i talked to the PRW engineer about the flexplates for the modulars with the chevy 10.5" bolt spacing he said they were looking in to adding the 10.625 last i spoke to him they did not do it.

in any case, he also informed me that PRW is going to be carried by transtar as well. They are the only flexplate that will work. You just have to drill it out as i mentioned in the link.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:38 am

Cool. Looks like I might be able to get this one to work... I need the 28oz ext balanced with 164 teeth.

http://store.prw-usa.com/1830211-small- ... 164-teeth/
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:01 pm

Wow, this has been a big project for me just to get the parts. I'll need to figure out something for a filler tube and 4x4 shifter since the 4r70w didn't come in a 4x4.

This solenoid sais it is 1.5 ohms, will this work? Trying to find something I can buy on line http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/For ... 27391a.htm
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:30 pm

the 4r70w did come in a 4x4 on some of the f150 trucks

yep no prob 1.5 is 1 ohm
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:40 pm

OK, at this point I am officially sick of ordering parts (spending money). :D

For reference, the 1.5ohm tcc solenoid is Ford part number F2VY-7G136, this is for 92-94 4r70w
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:23 pm

So I come up with this mapping to change out my E4OD solenoid pack connector for the 4r. I guess my only concern would be the vehicle power for the 4r. It uses 3 separate inputs for power where as the E4OD has one for power and one for power to the EPC solenoid. I was planning on not using E4OD pin #12 since I don't know if it is different than power just from the PCM.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby RIKIL » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:28 pm

Got the FM70 converter today and put it against my flexplate, need to make slight modifications as I thought. There are some holes that are close, they measure at 10.50 on center. When I measured the converter that came out to have a spacing of 10.60 on center. The flexplate material looks pretty thick. What is the best thing to do here? I am not sure I could just drill on the edge of those existing holes, might need a drill press to do that.
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Re: Getting a new trans

Unread postby decipha » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:56 am

i drill it and wallow it out a but never a problem

just make sure its not binded, should have 0.020 clearance at the bolt holes, i.e. wiggle room
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