Boosted P heads

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Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Tue May 01, 2018 8:53 am

UPS delivered my snail yesterday so I spent the evening unpacking everything and giving it all a once-over. Installing the kit itself isn't going to be too complicated, but tuning the car has me feeling pretty apprehensive. On3 ships their 44mm wastegates with a 6lb spring which makes me happy, but dialing it in is still unnerving considering the car is for the most part my daily and if it pops I'm gonna be like 75% fucked.

Tl;dr

How much fuel should I command for an SBE motor with P heads shaved .030" on 6 lbs? How much on 12 lbs? 15 lbs?

What about ignition timing? I will be picking up a dozen or so Autolite 102s to dial it in on and read.


Thanks boys.
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby decipha » Tue May 01, 2018 12:10 pm

troy first thing first is to relax lol, a boost engine is an n/a engine thst just moves more air, nothing special you tune it no differently than u do an n/a engine

usually on an engine with 10:1 comp i command .8 up to 8lbs .78 over 10 and .74 over 15

P heads are really efficient heads, you shouldnt shoot any more than 28-29 to them n/a or at 0 vac / 0 boost, 17deg at 10-12lbs and no more than 15deg at 15 lbs with your compression

when u get the turbo slapped on post your current tune here and i'll go thru it and post it back boost ready lol

also fill this form out and submit it

https://www.efidynotuning.com/info.php
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Tue May 01, 2018 12:51 pm

Filled out the remote tune info for the car after the install. I don't have access to E-85 locally unfortunately, but I do have 10 gallons of stuff I got from DFW a month ago stashed in the shop. The weather has been cool and it's sealed nicely so I should be able to cut it with some 93 octane to do the initial tuning with and give myself a little peace of mind.

This shit is stressing me out.
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby decipha » Tue May 01, 2018 5:27 pm

thats the worse idea possible you should never mix ethanol to dial in a tune, you should only use the fuel your actually gonna run in it

whats stressing u out? your tune now should startup and run fine unless you changed something?

post your current tune
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Wed May 02, 2018 6:56 am

I didn't change anything. Just nervous I'll end up turning it into a volcano lol
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby 351pwrdstang » Sat May 05, 2018 9:03 am

A volcano on 6psi? If it makes you feel better we ran an old vortech s trim at 17psi on p heads for a few days and and all we did was blow the fire rings out of the head gaskets. This was on 93 and 16* just for something to do. With 6lbs most people don't have any trouble as long as the fuel is there. That's with no timing changes. Just make sure you remove timing to keep the p heads happy.
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Mon May 07, 2018 12:57 pm

Current tune posted below.

On a side note, when I removed all my smog pump stuff I kept the vacuum solenoids in case they might end up useful one day. Turns out they will make GREAT boost solenoids. They'll allow me to bypass the MBC and run low boost on the wastegate spring when my cutout is closed and everything is going through the stock exhaust, then ramp boost to whatever the boost controller is set to when I energize the solenoid and open the cutout. Unlike most of the rest of my ideas, this should work pretty mint.
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby decipha » Tue May 08, 2018 8:38 am

yep that should work well, THRMP the thermactor switch is also for the supercharger bypass used on the supercoupes. GUFX has that code in it, its just disabled. Simple enough to enable it. If you want to add more parameters for it to be active just let me know and i can code them out no problem.

i see in your profile you list e85 yet your tune is set to 14 stoich? your maf is overinflated i assume due to the fuel? at 3.5 mafv theres a 0.746 variance as compared to the known curve so i assumed so? the math works out

looks like your low slope needs to come down, she was 15% enriched at 1.9 mafv, so lowering it approx 2.25 lbs/hr should knock the bottom down in to place

at 4.6 mafv you were 1.186% enleaned, meaning your high slope is approx 2.75 lbs/hr too low, that should raise the top back in to place

your datalogging patch code is outdated

your setup on e-85 should be yanking down right at ~1,000 kg/hr on the big end, is that about where your at ?
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby 89mustangcoupe » Tue May 08, 2018 9:08 pm

I just popped my head gaskets on my gt40p setup. I'm going to use felpro 9333 pt1 head gaskets and I'm running armour head studs. I think I might have ran too much timing. Need to retune. I was considering e85 but don't know if my stock walbro 255 with stock lines will handle it?
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby decipha » Wed May 09, 2018 6:07 am

o great the mans already nervous

how much timing were you shooting to her?
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Wed May 09, 2018 9:44 am

Here's a log I took on the way to class. This is the first wot log I've recorded in a while and the first all the way to 6k so don't judge too hard. Fuel and spark need fixed. Also, fwiw, I've never finished in the cells above 4.2v with this maf because I can't get there.

Unfortunately I don't have regular access to e85 like I mentioned in the 3rd post. However, with 93 octane I only managed around 720 kg/hr this morning. That's lower than usual probably because it's hot and humid today. When the weather is cooler I've seen up to 850, but never 1000.

Below is the xdl and my ancient adx. I tried to use the universal and didn't have any luck, probably because my shit is old and needs updated.
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby decipha » Wed May 09, 2018 3:22 pm

boy o boy oh boy, man i tell ya lol

that antiquated adx doesn't even have my old histograms, u rreally making me work for it

mafv err
4.25 1 -ish
4.00 1.06
3.75 1
3.50 1
3.25 1
2.50 1.03
2.00 1.05
1.75 1.03
1.50 1

fn035 err
6000 0.88
5300 0.93
3900 0.94

looks good
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Tue May 22, 2018 2:36 pm

The kit is on and I've been driving the car for about 5 days now. The car handled the first 6 psi like a champ and I got the tune dialed in and rescaled so I can make adjustments where it settles. I installed the manual boost controller and got the old smog pump solenoid wired up to act as a boost solenoid and took it for a test drive. The car is fast on 6, but on 12 pounds it is an absolute animal. Both the fuel-based and MAF-based WHP payload estimates show right at 500whp so I'm a little hesitant to turn it up any further. Honestly, increasing the boost probably wouldn't do much good anyway because the car makes significantly more power than it can put down.
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby decipha » Tue May 22, 2018 5:45 pm

12lbs should put u closer to 540rwhp, must be pretty low on the timing aye?

what lambda and spark u shooting to her up top?
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Tue May 22, 2018 9:53 pm

Commanding .75 lambda and 17° on 12psi at 150 load. I accidentally had the ACT retard pulling timing a little soon which looks like it might have been a good thing after all. After reading your last post I turned the boost down a little bit. Definitely not trying to break it in half.
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby decipha » Wed May 23, 2018 5:55 am

shoot 9.5 lbs to her at 21.5 deg will make the same power and safe
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby 93BlueFoxGT » Wed May 23, 2018 4:09 pm

What formulas are you using for RWHP payload estimates?
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Thu May 24, 2018 7:45 pm

The calculation I have based on fuel going in is significantly more complicated than the one based on air, but it's more accurate. For the air calculation I just took the MAF kg/hr and made a payload dividing it by 3.232.
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby 93BlueFoxGT » Fri May 25, 2018 11:42 am

Ok cool so it's that simple. Now my question is how to create a MAF kg/hr payload? All I see is the airmass AM (lb/min) payload and it does not match up with the MAF transfer. For example at 4.0 MAFV my flow is 630 kg/hr and the airmass payload shows 21.55 lb/min which when multiplied by 60/2.2 = 588 kg/hr which would be a 13 hp difference between the two.
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:49 pm

Anything in particular you would change for a stock cam in this combo? The spider tray bolts backed out and I lost the cam and several lifters last weekend.
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GT-40 upper and lower
65mm TB
Decapped injectors
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U4P0/U4P2/CBAZA
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Moates QH v1.6

Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:48 pm

nope a stock replacement cam is your best bet

93bluefox, just take AM and multiply by 8.4 or whatever ot os the tuning tips says to
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:59 pm

Meant to say it wiped the B cam I had so I dropped a stocker in this past weekend. No timing changes? I also swapped the thermostat to a 180.

I had forgotten how much better torque the factory cams make. The car shit 3rd gear out of the T5 on the test drive.
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9.7:1
GT-40 upper and lower
65mm TB
Decapped injectors
Single 70mm snail
U4P0/U4P2/CBAZA
TunerPro v5
Moates QH v1.6

Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby decipha » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:39 am

no the cam wouldn't necessitate any timing changes so long as you had your timing dialed in correctly

why would you swap to a 180 thermostat? I thought you were running e85 as well? Running anything less than a 195 thermostat on e-85 is a very very bad idea. With E-85 your engine needs to get hot enough to boil all the water out the oil or you'll be changing the oil every month.

the b cam is a horrible cam shouldn't be used for anything
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93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
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Re: Boosted P heads

Unread postby SlowBox » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:25 am

I changed it out mainly because the car has a hard time keeping itself cool in traffic even with an aluminum 3-core and MkVIII fan and it was old. ECT still climbs to the mid 190s or 200. As for E85, the closest pump is now 2 hours from my house so I don't have regular access. I'm also up to 70% injdc at 10psi on 93 octane, so I'm not convinced I'll have the headroom for that much boost anyway.

I'll likely start a thread looking for info about a 4R swap if I end up not having parts to build another T5.
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9.7:1
GT-40 upper and lower
65mm TB
Decapped injectors
Single 70mm snail
U4P0/U4P2/CBAZA
TunerPro v5
Moates QH v1.6


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