FBFG2 strategy?

European strategy specific for 2004 ford mustang euro spec but also modified by SVT and used on the 03/04 cobra. Can be used on all 2002-2004 mustang v8 and v6 manual and automatics. Supports automatic 4r70w control. Can be used on 2001-2004 ford F-150 4.6 / 5.4 ecu's if configured correctly as well.
Cougar281
Posts: 55
Joined: 2022 May 04, 18:05
Location: St Louis, MO
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mercury Cougar
2002 PI 4.6L V8
1999 J-Modded 4R70W
2004 PTP2 PCM

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by Cougar281 »

Sorry, not sure how I missed that.. BUT.. the 'Cougar281_ptp2_v2b_dtks.bin' is working well - seems essentially the same as the MGZT tune with the six parameters changed, and I'm game to try the 'Cougar281_ptp2_v2b.bin' and change things to see what exactly is the issue, however, what is 'DTKS'? Like I said, I searched the tune for that and got nothing back, so I don't really know what I should be looking at and changing.
decipha
Posts: 4957
Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
Location: Metairie, LA
Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by decipha »

dtks is the ticks for the ad channel registers

the ecu turns digital outputs on and off many times a second to output a frequency to control outputs like the epc tcc iac fpr etc...

the dtks value is the clock conversion to frequency
Cougar281
Posts: 55
Joined: 2022 May 04, 18:05
Location: St Louis, MO
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mercury Cougar
2002 PI 4.6L V8
1999 J-Modded 4R70W
2004 PTP2 PCM

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by Cougar281 »

I just loaded up the 'Cougar281_ptp2_v2b.bin' that I somehow missed yesterday evening, and that one works properly, aside from the goofy idle on startup that all of the FBGI0 tunes have been exhibiting on my car - Basically, when it starts up, it starts at an elevated idle, within is normal, but before it settles down to a lower idle, the FBGI0 based tunes continue to increase the RPM almost like it's trying to run away (not sure how high it gets because it seems my aftermarket tach driver is dead - tach is just sitting at like 2200RPM), before settling down to the lower idle. Load up my original FBFG2 based tune and it fires up and idles like it should. Probably something small somewhere. I'll have to poke around and see if I can find anything. Thanks for your help!
decipha
Posts: 4957
Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
Location: Metairie, LA
Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by decipha »

yeah thats the one you want to use you don't want to change the DTKS

thats the isc multiplier table needs to be kicked down

Attached
Attachments
Cougar281_ptp2_v3.bin
(256 KiB) Downloaded 181 times
Cougar281
Posts: 55
Joined: 2022 May 04, 18:05
Location: St Louis, MO
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mercury Cougar
2002 PI 4.6L V8
1999 J-Modded 4R70W
2004 PTP2 PCM

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by Cougar281 »

v3 seems better. Seems to stumble a little on startup, but it's not trying to run away like it was. As the car is essentially a 2004 Mustang GT in every way the PCM is concerned about, a stock Mustang GT tune should run it fine, and the PTP2 tune was very lightly touched. I did notice that there were some differences between the original PTP2 tune and the MGZT one, such as the MAF tables. Problem is comparing the two is 'tough' since they're different strategies, so somethings are in different places so a straight compare won't work as you'll get gibberish. I'll poke around the tunes and see what I can find, I don't want to suck up lots of your time. You've already been a huge help.
Cougar281
Posts: 55
Joined: 2022 May 04, 18:05
Location: St Louis, MO
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mercury Cougar
2002 PI 4.6L V8
1999 J-Modded 4R70W
2004 PTP2 PCM

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by Cougar281 »

So I've been fiddling with this in my 'spare time', and my original PTP2 tune runs the car noticeably better (except for the fuel pump behavior). Comparing the tune I've been running to a stock PTP2 tune, the attached image shows the only changes. The driveline in my car, from MAF to downstream O2 and crank pully to transmission output shaft is 99-04 Mustang GT, so any stock Mustang GT tune should tune should run right. In poking through the FBGI0 base 'PTP2' tune posted, there are a lot of differences - MAF, IAC, etc. Take FN036 in the attached images - quite different. Any ideas? Shouldn't a stock, auto trans FBGI0 Mustang GT tune match a stock auto trans FBFG2 PTP2 calibration and run the car the same?
Attachments
FBGI0_FN036.PNG
FBFG2_FN036.PNG
PTP2 diff.JPG
decipha
Posts: 4957
Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
Location: Metairie, LA
Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by decipha »

the maf transfers you posted are both the same, in my head they come out to the same value when you interpolate them

fbgi0 is for euro spec so a touch different than us

post your current tune file and a log driving her around.

fbgi0 is setup for premium fuel and a hot cam so if your running 87 you probably need to adjust the timing and dial in dashpot

what is it that feels lacking? the shift points are significantly different too
Cougar281
Posts: 55
Joined: 2022 May 04, 18:05
Location: St Louis, MO
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mercury Cougar
2002 PI 4.6L V8
1999 J-Modded 4R70W
2004 PTP2 PCM

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by Cougar281 »

To be honest, I haven't driven it with the FBGI0 tune. But just starting is noticeably different. The last tune you posted doesn't have as much of the 'runaway' that the original version had, but it stumbles on startup, whereas the FBFG2 version fires up smooth. If the FBGI0 tune is set up for premium and a hot cam, then 87 and a stock cam would likely not work too well without changes. I didn't realize it until just now, but the FN036 table has 30 rows, going from 0 in row one and both columns for both tunes, to 5.120 in both tunes for 'IMAF' but 44.828 in the 'lbs/min' column for the FBFG2 tune and 40.858 for the FBGI0 tune. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'they come out to the same value when you interpolate them', but my guess is you mean the ECM can calculate values in between rows of the table, so for example, 1.944 IMAF on the FBFG2 tune would calculate out in to between 1.875 & 2.0 (rows 15 & 16) on the FBGI0 tune? If that's correct, the only question there is would the 4#/min difference at the top end make a difference in how everything's calculated?

I'm not exactly sure what spark tables would need to be modified, but I looked at FN2200 (Borderline knock), which appears to be the only one referenced in your 'minimum values' list, and they're definitely different. At .500 and 2000 RPM on the FBFG2 tune, it's 17*, but on the FBGI0 tune, at the same cell, it
s 28*, but I also noticed on the FBFG2 tune, the RPM columns go from 500 to 6000 in 300RPM steps until the 2000 column, then increase steps from there until 6000, but the FBGI0 tune goes from 750 to 5400 - will a copy and paste from the FBFG2 tune work with the column differences? I also looked for 'Dashpot', and lots of differences there, which may not mean anything specific - is there one specific table or value that is the 'key to it all' that would need to be changed?

And I'm ashamed to say I haven't figured out how to get Tunerpro to log data from the QH :(.
Attachments
FN2200.JPG
decipha
Posts: 4957
Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
Location: Metairie, LA
Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by decipha »

nope makes no difference

there's a lot of catching up you have to do. I highly recommend starting at the top of the homepage and going down the whole left column reading every write up.

The getting started write up has pictorials to show you how to log. You literally click 3 buttons.
http://www.efidynotuning.com/started.htm#record

In between 4 and 5 in the pictorial shown you can click the red circle dash icon to bring up the dashboard and see the live data

honestly, your best bet is to go back to using fbfg2 since your not going to be actually dialing anything in
Cougar281
Posts: 55
Joined: 2022 May 04, 18:05
Location: St Louis, MO
Vehicle Information: 1995 Mercury Cougar
2002 PI 4.6L V8
1999 J-Modded 4R70W
2004 PTP2 PCM

Re: FBFG2 strategy?

Unread post by Cougar281 »

Yes, you're right, I do have a lot of catching up/learning to do. I'll check that all out - maybe it'll teach me something :).

For now, yes, I'll probably run the FBFG2 tune, but at the very least, I want to keep the FBGI0 tune 'on the back burner'. Maybe as I read and learn, I can iron it out. The Fuel pump is the biggest annoyance on the FBFG2 tune though. Any ideas why the it work 95% on the FBFG2 tune, but 100% on the FBGI0 tune?

Ultimately, my plan is to drop a DOHC motor built on a Teksid block in (possibly supercharged), and when that happens, real tuning will need to be done. Biggest holdup for that is lack of headers (C heads in a MN12), and fuel rails that'll support the FRPS and fit a 03/04 Mach1 intake and can be set up as a return system. But for now, stock tuning with some shift schedule massaging is fine.
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