A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for advise

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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby SlowBox » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:04 pm

At $330 they are more than likely the real deal. I'd run them and look for discrepancies in the logs.
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:30 pm

I cant even buy 80s wholesale for $330, I can guarantee you they are fakes

musclemotors will price match any posted authentic prices, its always best to go with them or chris at poweraddersolutions
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby 93BlueFoxGT » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:00 am

TRE has them on sale for $340, almost too good to be true

http://treperformance.com/i-20619009-ge ... ors-8.html
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:45 am

tre sells fakes
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby 93BlueFoxGT » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:19 am

Good to know
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby Bad86capri » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:45 pm

So I'm curious how do you tell their fakes? The website states their genuine Siemens. I'm interested in these as well.
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:14 pm

the price, they could be real but doubtful

here, see if muscle motors will price match

http://www.siemensdeka.com/product/80lb ... -fi114992/

lmk what they say im curious
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:16 pm

Not much updates recently, driving the car around getting break in miles in on the new engine. Dealing with some massive wheel hop... I think the taller rear springs resulting in my rear geometry being off coupled with the hard compound tires it just doesn't like.

The car will rev over 6500 now with the new TFS springs and it just runs a lot smoother. You can definitely hear the B cam more now that it's set at +4. I hope to have it back on the rollers in a couple of weeks but it might not happen till spring. Heating season is coming which means not many extra funds...



Jeremy

P.S. I just seen your responses regarding the injectors. I ended up taking them out, still running stockers now. I'm on the fence about installing them or having a local guy check them... It's $100 so if they turn out good I'm still ahead. If they are bad I'm out $430 :roll:

Decipha, when you get genuine ones how are they packaged? I've heard that they come in almost a plastic sleeve that is sealed between each injector... I can tell you that these came in individually wrapped bubble wrap bags.
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:28 pm

decipha wrote:tre sells fakes


Even if TRE has fakes, it still says they warranty them for a year. Sadly where I bought mine from only had a warranty for 16 days, which has long since passed.



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby Fox88 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:22 am

I just got some from P.A.S., they were packaged 2 per "bag" if you want to call it that. So (4) packages for (8) injectors. I used the discount code over on the Corral they have posted.
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:30 pm

yea that's how they are suppose to come, i get mine from power adder solutions as well
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:29 am

So it's not looking good for me. Yay.



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby SlowBox » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:11 am

I would make an attempt at dialing them in before I gave up and ate $330.
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:34 pm

I talked to my buddy with the dyno and he said the same thing. He dialed in a set of $200 injectors the other day. Little wonky at first to get it to idle but then all was good. It's worth the gamble, I just really don't want to pull the plenum again lol



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:39 pm

yea give it a go and try
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:54 pm

Maybe next week. I'd like to get the speedo working again too.



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:42 pm

Just playing around a bit more with my car and I have a few questions regarding fuel error and IEGO's.

It makes sense to me that the fuel error will maintain 1.125, in a WOT condition when LAMBSE is being demanded at .875... Is this an accurate assumption or is fuel error still supposed to read ALWAYS 1.0 no matter what the LAMBSE is that's being demanded?

I'm tuning off my narrow band signals currently and it seems I'm heading in a good direction but just making sure. The car is hesitating less above 4000 now that I have knocked a little fuel out of the top. A 5th gear pull tonight between 3500 and 4100 at about 80% throttle is maintaining a 1.15 fuel error with a LAMBSE of .875 and my IEGO's not dipping below .45V.

Also when I'm cruising and I tip in to the throttle heavily why do my IEGO's go lean for an extended period of time before switching back? I am assuming this is in the accel enrichment?

And also why isn't the LAMBSE demanding less fuel in a decel condition i.e. below a load of 10 coasting down a hill?



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:47 pm

yep i have the error to tell u the fuel percentage, u cant use it in open loop

run wot in closed loop to get your fuel dialed in up top

how long is an extended period?

if the lambses are coming up during decel while in closed loop then its not rich, why would you expect it to?
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:06 pm

I need to force closed loop... OK.

I'm basing the "extended period" off switches from the o2 sensors, I don't have an actual length but it's about 3-4 switches so it's probably a short amount of time. Just to clarify the o2's aren't switching during this time, they are reading lean, but the time frame of it being lean prior to switching is the same length of time as 3-4 switching events while cruising. I could get a screenshot of what I'm talking about if you'd like to see.

I would expect LAMBSE to decrease (go lean) as the ECM should be demanding little to no fuel during a coasting situation. As the engine load is low and the fuel required is little to nothing. That being said, the o2's should be in the tank lean with perhaps a switch now and then. (This should also help with fuel economy haha)



Jeremy

P.S. I'm reading through your Fuel write-up in the Closed loop tuning and you're referring to the WOT breakpoint. I assume this is the TPS OL threshold. Now to disable OL vs RPM and OL vs ECT, where do I find those functions?
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:29 pm

hit control f in tunerpro and the find will pop up, type them in and they should all be together

you expect wrong, decel is no differen than accel, in closed loop the hegos are still only targeting 1 AFR and that is stoich
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:44 pm

The find function doesn't seem to come up with anything when looking fro OL vs RPM, OL vs ECT.

I appreciate the help BTW. I know that you charge for your tuning services and here you are helping me do it, for free.



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:00 pm

im not tuning it lol

just type in OL
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:16 pm

decipha wrote:im not tuning it lol


True, but some people wouldn't see it that way.



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:22 pm

I've looked through all of the parameters that contain OL and the only two things that I can find remotely close to OL vs RPM and OL vs ECT is "Force OL at CT" and "Force OL - Z_FORCE_OL" which are both patches.



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:57 pm

Are these the parameters that I need to adjust to dial my fuel in?



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:45 pm

ah i see, those parameters aren't in gufx which is what you have

to force closed loop in gufx you have to set fn320a to max all 2.0 or 200 depending on def, and thbp5 to maximum either 5.12v or 1020 ad cnts

i updated the tips write up to include it now

http://www.efidynotuning.com/tips.htm#StayCL
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:13 pm

Thanks!



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:22 am

I've had the car going for about a week now with the "Deka" 80's. I couldn't get the A9L2 to drive very well so I went to the stock A9L and plugged in the injector data and played with a few other things and the drivability is pretty good. I'm still having an issue with WOT pulls. The car breaks up over 4000RPM.

When I log a WOT pull my fuel error is 1.150, IEGO is in the 600's. I'm commanding .900 LAMBSE from 30-70% load and .850 over 70%. I don't have a wideband. 600 IEGO tells me I'm lean but no matter what I try it will not richen. Fuel error incorporates LAMBSE into the equation so in my head fuel error should always be as close to 1.00 as possible. I've moved my slopes to compensate for the 15% fuel error. I've moved my maf transfer as well and nothing is helping.

Also I can't figure out which timing table the ECM is looking at. I have turned off the baro sensor. I've attached a screenshot of the log.



Jeremy
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:09 am

if you couldn't get the a9l2 going good then you either have mechanical issues or are not dialing it in correctly

if the car is breaking up you prob have mechanical issues

how can u calculate the fuel error without a wideband if its not in closed loop ?

why are you commanding so rich?

.600 iego is rich

if you cant get the iego above .6 then you have mechanical problems

fuel error is based on closed loop feedback, if its in open loop as it should be then the fuel error is telling you the fuel ratio commanded

a stock a9l tune uses all 3 spark tables and the wot spark functions
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:43 am

It's likely I'm not dialing in the A9L2 correctly. The issue I constantly have with it is it will stall after a long decel when I coming to a stop sign or light. Very aggravating. The stock tune does not do this, that's why I gave up on the A9L2.



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:16 am

decipha wrote:if you couldn't get the a9l2 going good then you either have mechanical issues or are not dialing it in correctly

if the car is breaking up you prob have mechanical issues

how can u calculate the fuel error without a wideband if its not in closed loop ?

why are you commanding so rich?

.600 iego is rich

if you cant get the iego above .6 then you have mechanical problems

fuel error is based on closed loop feedback, if its in open loop as it should be then the fuel error is telling you the fuel ratio commanded

a stock a9l tune uses all 3 spark tables and the wot spark functions



It did it before with the old engine before we added spark on the dyno. I don't want to add spark till I can figure out how to add the fuel.

That makes sense now that you've said that. I'm trying to tune it in OL so I can't utilize the fuel error reading. This just makes it that much more difficult to tune without a wideband.

I'm commanding so rich to see if it would actually get that rich, and it isn't.

I understand .600 IEGO is rich, but not 12.5 rich.

I'm not sure I understand what type of mechanical issues you think I might be having. The engine runs perfect, just not above 4000RPM. It stumbles and looses power.

So why is my LAMBSE .850 and the fuel error 1.150? Is it because .850 is 15% richer than stoich hence the 15% additional fuel error?

I count 4 spark tables and I see no WOT spark function.



Jeremy
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:20 pm

if it stalls on decel just fix it

how are you trying to tune it in open loop if u dont have a wideband?

just put it in closed loop and let the hegos dial in the fuel for you,no reason to make something so simple as diffixult as your making it

how do u know its not getting that rich without a wideband?

.6 is rich, could be 14.6 rich 12.1 rich 10.0 rich etc... how are you determining what it acrually at?

if it stumbles its not perfect, if the hegos wont go above .6 volts u have mechanical problems

.85 lambse == 1.15 fuel error, correct, just as it says in the fuel write up

keep looking for it, its there

are u by any chance using the gufx strategy for the a9l2 ? if so thats the problem

the a9l is the gufb strategy, youll have to find the old gufb xdf to use it properly
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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:01 am

A9L2 is GUFB? GUFX is listed beside A9L2 on your downloads page.

So I found a link to download the GUFB.zip folder but it has GUFX.xdf and GUFB.adx



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:23 pm

no,

a9l2 is gufx

a9l is gufb

I dont support any of the guf strats other than gufx, youll have to go to the tunerpro website and download the gufb xdf
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decipha
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
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00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:24 pm

Oh, you were saying if I stick with the stock A9L that I'll need to use the GUFB, I got it now.

The fact is I like your theory and execution of the A9L2 but I have not had any luck getting it to be happy on my car or any of the other 3 I've tried it on so far. The '56 pickup was about the best luck I've had with using it and that was just to get the truck running so it can be driven on and off a roll back to go to the paint shop. The final tune will be coming once it is painted. I'd love to run your rendition but maybe it is just too dumbed down for me and I'm over thinking the entire thing.



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:41 am

yea thats odd, if it doesn't run correctly on the a9l2 but it does on the a9l then that means its tuner error, prob be a good idea to read over the fuel write up to get a better idea how the ecu controls fuel
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
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98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:11 am

I read back through the fuel write-up and I was confusing lambse with kamrf. I added two degrees the other day up top and it winds out in the RPM a bit better but still breaks up. I hope to play with it a bit more today to get it dialed in a bit. My kamrf is very near 1.000 during a WOT pull and I think I have the load scaling dialed in a bit better as well. I certainly was overthinking the whole setup.

It still stalls on occasion. I can hear the IAC open quickly in attempt to recover then it gets into a rhythm that sometimes will get itself out of but most of the time will stall after the 3rd or 4th lug.



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Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:30 am

kams should be 1 at wot since its not learning in closed loop at wot

kick up dashpot
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decipha
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Posts: 15508
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby jhine5588 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:23 am

I see that dashpot is dependent on a VSS signal. My speedometer has been dropping out shortly after driving down the road (2 miles or so) from a cold soak. I have been wondering if not having a VSS input has been a reason the car has been stalling. I'm hoping to get this fixed (bought a new cable and speed sensor yesterday) as my cruise also is inop.



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Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:18 pm
Name: Jeremy
Vehicle Information: 1983 LTD station wagon: Blueprint 5.0 longblock, TFS springs and intake, B-cam +4 degrees, MAC longtubes, catted H-pipe, Deka 80's, C&L 76mm 230whp/280ftlbs

Re: A9L2 tune progress- 89 roller w/ bolt ons looking for ad

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:27 am

you can try to kick up LOWLOD to keep it in dashpot longer, and just have it decay slower
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decipha
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Posts: 15508
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

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