TuNiN n00b Exp -Cpl n00b ?s

[decipha]

Its going to take a lot to get audible knock on a setup like yours.

As you lean out the mix within' reason the knock limit usually increases.

If you have EGR it would be wise to turn it up too in that same range to get more out of her if you can.

[red5.0fogger]

I had a 4 cylinder Ranger when i was young and just learning. I would bump the timing up and down on the distributor. Medium to light spark knock to me, think of krinkling a potato chip bag but the bag is under the hood. About the time of 2008 when gas prices soared there were people saying 93 oct wasn't as advertised. So on my na mustang I bumped the distributor until i could hear light spark knock at cruise. That was with a tank of 87 octane. Then I filled up with 93 and the ping went away and proved it was real.

[entity-unknown]

Decipha - Thank You! I did enable the EGR cuz I do have one and know it's value vs. the "it's useless just delete it" crowd but I didn't want to report anything until I had some use time to make sure I didn't totally screw somethin up :D Here's the chat with where Clint mentioned what he was doin and I kinda based my values on that, but more conservative until I know WTF I'm doin.
Does this look good and/or should I raise/lower anything?

I did test it out this morning a bit and the key report is nothing bad/unusual happened. I kinda thought I heard the engine run a bit different when MFA kicks it to OL but it's too new and that exhaust is loud (low grumbly good loud not rice rocket lawnmower loud)

I'm not sure how I'd measure the good/bad results tho. I'll dig unless you want to share a hint ;)

You mentioned the knock stuff was garbage before but I would like to enable it now. I didn't before since I figured I wouldn't be doin anything to cause a knock tuning the MAF and didn't want the retardation to screw up my work. So I have the knock sensor installed where it was from the factory. I've seen the knock flag trigger before tho without the setting being enabled. So do I just enable or is it already on? I think I can figure out the tables but if you had a hard lesson learned to share I'll take that :)

Fogger - that potato bag chip crinkling is what I heard before in the videos I watched too and I just don't see myself hearing that ever like Decipha said with my setup. The open top alone kills that I think :D I'll at least keep listening for it (hope I never hear it either) but so the exhaust ticks and lifter slaps are sounds not close tho right? The sounds I heard from the vidz def had that electrical staticy sound to it too vs. the lifter/exhaust sounds more mechanical/gaseous albeit damn near identical.
I know my carb bike does not run well at all on 87 and it states it needs 89+ and there's no doubt that's true. It's nothin like throwin 89/91 in say a Bronco/Mustang where the difference is noticeable but meh in my experience. With the bike 87 feels like I've halved the fuel flow but 89 it's happy and 91 it just zips with no effort. That might be a difference between EFI vs. carb as well so maybe EFI is already efficient so there's not much extra oomf to get vs. the carb maybe it's like advancing timing? Prob terrible examples :D

[entity-unknown]

DO NOT use that EGR table above if you're a casual viewer and testing along!!! :D You may already know from your own experience but that EGR table is garbage :D Nothin blew up but I didn't get far either :D

I don't have any EGR measurements in the logs including the CSV export as far as I can tell? The IEGR volts shows 0.56 always so I'm thinkin that may be a dummy value? It's always shown that but I figured I just never engaged the EGR. Now I know I def am engaging it and I can see the Lambse, HEGO, get real unhappy moving to extreme lean measures when the 2,000 RPM range of the MFA EGR Multi. table kicked in but those are about all I have to measure this off of. Conveniently I hit 25 MPH & 2K RPMs thresholds at the very same moment so MFA is fully engaged ;)

I see iegr_FuelPres has a 1 or 2 that varies but no relevance to this it seems nor blatant consistency and I know we have no fuel pressure sensor for at least my setup. So I'll reduce the EGR MFA Multiplier and dial that in now :D

First Observations/Thoughts about Further Tuning after EGR table Adjustment Results/Failure:
Takin a stab at the logic behind tuning the MFA Lambse & EGR tables, I gather start low and work my way up. Starting high and working my way down could "start" with catastrophic failure vs. say tuning the MAF, startin high seems to be better to work your way down, vs. starting low takes way longer to work your way up and could start with catastrophic failure since both are lean situations. MFA I gather is more dangerous cuz it's intended and does implement when at speed so you're dropped in where ever you command vs. the MAF table you have to work your way up the scale step by step.
Still w/ MAF I gather setting say AD counts for 850 to 0.000 kg/hr rampin up hot from the 750 MAF count range at say 3+K RPMs would be an equally bad day.

I'll test these theories and settings and report back when I have a better idea as to how this works but I see the critical value still to watch will be lambse and the HEGO voltage to ensure I do not run lean beyond expected/safe.

[red5.0fogger]

quiet tires and exhaust are great for hearing light pinging. I never heard anything like pinging on my truck with 33 mud rovers lol. Could barely hear the Kenwood with 2 12inch woofers. Nah jk that was loud.

[decipha]

no worries its impossible to cause any catastrophic failure at cruise. Worse case it just misfires if you go too lean or too diluted.

read the fuel write up theres a ton of good info in there.

[entity-unknown]

Fogger - BFG KO2s are very quiet which is nice! The POS rock hard Coopers that fell apart on me were so loud I couldn't hear the engine and I had a hard time hearin the stereo which is def not quiet. The new exhaust is actually very quiet at a low RPM cruise and idle but a bit of throttle or above 2k RPMs it roars so anything above 45MPH is deafening. Startup I'm sure wakes the neighbors too :\ Front windows are always down w/ the open top so the additional wind noise.... I'm pretty sure I lose a bit of hearing every day I drive this Bronco now :D :\

Decipha - Awesome so I'm safe! I know the feeling/sound/logs of too rich/lean so cool I'll continue tuning these. Thank You for the confidence ;) I keep reading over your articles since they make more and more sense each time as I progress so I'll revisit fueling again :) I did reduce the Lambse/EGR tables quite a bit to basically .01-.05 in the ranges I'm testing this in while others are 0.00. I incremented my selective ranges by .01 today and that actually increased the performance particularly up hill since with my lower values I couldn't break 65MPH, it felt kinda "stuck" there and felt like it was boggin ever so slightly if I added throttle but still up against a wall. The .01 change allowed me to hit 73 MPH and still have room to go up hill. I went .01 above a 2nd time and it didn't do as well so I went back and still haulin ass up that hill.

The way I'm adding EGR to the MFA EGR table is making it equalish (the table ranges aren't 1:1 but close) to the MFA Lambse Adder (more like subractor given how it's being used) table. So .03 of Lambse, I do .03 of EGR. The thought is the value of EGR is an equal "mass of air"? as the Lambse adjustment would make to .03 EGR is 1:1 of .03 of Lambse. I figure Lambse is an effect of what the O2 sensor sees even in OL so the fuel trims to match the commanded .03 less Lambse are the same method for CL/OL. If that's true, then that's why I figure adding the 1:1ish of EGR would make up for the air the Lambse "subtractor" would now command thus the .03 difference is all/most EGR and no/little extra. I also figure if I add JUST EGR and do nothing for the Lambse, it would have the same effect of running a leaner condition, but it wouldn't be "commanded" fuel, so EEC would fight to add more fuel instead of read it as balanced/expected.

Question: W/ MFA, it goes to Open Loop which is new for me in a running state after idle has cleared. I still have HEGO voltage stats but I have random reads of the Lambse. It has to leverage Lambse somehow to tip in, stay in, and tip out.... When I check my logs I always have a Lambse value and they seem to change too. The dashboard updates very slowly like every few seconds for Lambse now, but can I get it to update faster like in CL?

[decipha]

man you really need to read the fuel write up

[entity-unknown]

My bad, that wasn't supposed to post. This was more a draft/notes while I was still gettin more info and didn't know it posted :\ Either way I'm still messin with all this n figuring it out which helps me better understand your writeups as I re-read them too. And yes I will re-read the fuel write up again :)
If I were asked to explain the tuning process in a picture, the attached image is how I would explain it ;)

[entity-unknown]

Awesome I believe the highlighted statement below is what you were nudging me towards that I was tryin to figure out about the HEGO volts in Open Loop which does answer my ? ;) I've read this a few times before but it didn't "matter" (click) at the time just cuz I was solely in CL. This is why I've been re-reading the dox on my own choice too as I keep completing "steps". You can ignore the rest here, it's more for sharing the experience ;)

True story I've only hit WOT OL a few times but that was early in my tuning. Since I'd say 1/4 way thru the MAF tuning journey, I have tried a few times since and I can mash the pedal to the floor but it doesn't go WOT / OL nor does my TP AD counts get close to the WOT count (I know I can adjust that w/ THBP2). I'm floating around 500-550 for the pedal mashed. That's on my list of To Dos now I'm where I can actually tune that bit whereas before it simply didn't matter cuz my MAF table wasn't ready.

Bonus, I know I can KOEO to troubleshoot the throttle and TP/TPS w/ Tuner Pro RT since I can see the TP AD Counts on the dashboard real time and I have a 12ft USB cable so the laptop and me can be in the engine bay ;) I used the TP AD counts to restore my throttle stop screw when I first started messin with that so I could get it back to where it was happiest.


Below excerpt from:
http://www.efidynotuning.com/fuel.htm (Fuel Control)

Open Loop / Closed Loop
In open loop the lambse's do not respond to hego feedback, the lambse calculated from the fuel table(s) and multipliers is what you get since the hegos are cold during startup all ecu's crank into open loop fuel mode, one can logically figure out that since the hegos can only report STOICH = 1.000 lambda, that open loop must be entered at WOT and high loads as well where enrichment is needed (more fuel than stoich) So short, in open loop the hegos are just ignored but they can still give you insight on if your lean or rich by the voltage they are reporting. At WOT the hegos should be reporting 0.800 volts or more indicating your not lean. If you see them drop below that you know your lean unless the hegos heaters aren't getting power.