my experience with going back to SD

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my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:37 am

Intro edit: This thread is half questions, half rants, half "i have no idea what i'm doing." Instead of 10 different threads, i'll try to keep them condensed into this one, so it'll be a long one. i'll occasionally edit for clarification, but i'll leave my mistakes the same. after all, it's a learning experience. :oops:


Alright so far I've put it all back in and I've been driving with my mustang buddies just to play around with it. First thing I do is eff up. I forget the MAP! Crazy idle, killed it fast. Hooked it up to the check valve that the c/c is and the smog pump or coal canister WAS, another mistake! It only lets idle vacuum go through, so step on the pedal and OFF. I snuck out of the neighborhood on idle so I didn't notice before I drug it into the Wendy's parking lot. Lol. Put the open-through from map to mani, cruise control can suck it. Now here's my REAL review.

GREAT. Throttle Is SO fast. Drive idle is PERFECT. It stopped misfiring, no hesitation at low gear not shifting areas (lugging?) I get a funny sound from that check valve, its fun again. All that stuff.

And in neutral, it drops to like, 300 rpm. So that's bad. It likes to die. Nothing like going into drive.

It has a fuel in wot vs rpm too, that sounds nice. There's heavily used egr table in this too, I could get some more mpg out of it. Any quick tips? I'm going to set up the fuel as your a9l2 is, and pull a little more out of the wot vs rpm too. Spark is stock highest+6 all modifiers to 1.

On that point, some of them are ridiculous! Part throttle was like X.96 and +1 as well. Why. Why cant you just cancel them out.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:16 am

are you sure your looking at the actual spark table?
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:31 pm

For what? There were weird modifiers to the actual spark table but they all didn't do much in total.

On another note, there's spark mult vs error in neutral, and only the one for neutral shows up. And I had a nice time trying to put lucid numbers in, it was all messed up. That's my problem. I set -8192 to .5, and 8192 to 1.5 I hope that will work for now.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:59 am

nope. it didn't work. it'll only idle in gear, plop it in neutral or park and it will immediately go and die. i'll have to call Glover about it Monday, he is who has been replying to my emails. is he the man in charge?

i moved my spark up a lil at cruise (20 in/Hg) and below it. so far with SD, +2 MPG in almost all circumstances. and the torque really hits now. even though i have to keep it in gear, it's still worth it.

i've also figured out a way to get around my lack of sticky tires. in 2nd, push it up to ~7 mph, and then slam the pedal. it'll drop into first and off i go. no more tail wagging. it helps me keep up with my friend's 5.0 that has more power and a manual. he can't get an inch of grip in the whole quarter mile, so that helps too! lol
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:21 am

why not null out the spark modifiers and use a spark table so what you see is actual?

Mike glover is the sole owner of STKR the creator of the tweecer, he has his software locked so anything tune wise thats not correct such as memory address, equations, etc.. has to go through him
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:06 pm

Of course, all modifiers are off. Besides that bad function, all is good.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:27 pm

the function now has valid numbers, caledit has been updated. now, on to my final review: no ragrets. ;)

i misplaced a zero in the tune and that led to the dying, raised the idle screw and it's running GREAT (still) i will not miss MAF and somebody is going to buy the 90LMAF soon. i've been fiddling with the tune a lot less than i did with A9L and that's because there's not anything left to fix. idles great, tip in is great, MPG is better than my MAF tune was (by like, 1 or 2), it runs MUCH smoother, etc. etc.

now i did notice an oddity. i'm stuck using wot spark vs. rpm, so i set it to same as the top row in the table. the top spark in this row is 27, up from 21 stock (i added 6 for my heads). however wot spark max was already 27, i didn't add anything for that. that seems odd to me. is it because they added fuel for WOT as well, and more spark was safe?
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:51 pm

Im glad to hear all is working out for you, theres nothing wrong with speed density it just requires updating the ve table when you do modifications, tune wise theres no difference sd vs maf

you probably have have other modifiers to the table, you could have a value that says 34 degrees and only get 20 yet you can have another value of 19 somewhere and get 40, you have to calculate for all the spark modifiers

if your burning premium shoot mbt to it

back in the day i used to disable the wot spark functions by setting the WOT threshold to max, that way the wot flag would never be set
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
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93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:33 pm

from everything i've read the only difference is the speed at responding to load changes. but my engine responds better to SD than most of the fox stangs i've been in have.

i added 6 to the whole table, although 27 is max under 100 load. 36 degrees, mbt from your chart, would be safe to put in then? that's a big jump. i'm running 36 degrees at 21 load/vac. when i had the a9l i had 29 degrees under 90 load.

i kind of like the fuel vs. rpm under wot. i might keep it.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:46 pm

yea as long as your not running 87 octane go ahead and shoot some timing to it
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:05 am

i'm scared as hell to try that much timing, but i'll figure out a table with it and make a run with 36 degrees WOT. i'll pop back in and report after.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:25 am

what r u scared of?
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:19 pm

detonation.

apparantly caledit doesnt log more than 42 spark. fun. yeah, 36 degrees works. as far as i can hear, with my cats-only exhaust, there's no pinging at WOT. the engine sounds almost like what i imagine the valves would sound like from the exhaust side, but i don't believe it to be pinging.

also, to see if i could fix my high load misfire, i borrow my friend's MSD coil and it helped 100% so now i suppose i need a higher voltage ignition. from what i've read, crane coils go a long way.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:46 pm

every once in a while (red lights and hot roads?) under wot it will ping past 3500 rpm. i'm thinking of retarding the act when the air gets hot. does this happen a lot?
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:53 pm

it shouldnt unless its getting really hot

make sure your dis is at 10
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:06 pm

i put it at tdc a while ago. it's hard to call a pattern to it, it seems random sometimes. it might not even be the same back to back on launches. if i had to find similarities, it's always high rpms (high load/low rpm doesn't ping). maybe the TFI piece? it's oem..
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:59 am

it should be at 10 degress btdc not just tdc

If the tfi was going bad it would run like crap not just ping sometimes

pinging is from too much timing, just take a lil timing out in the cells where its pinging
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:47 pm

i found TDC to verify and found the balancer moved maybe 5 degrees, so i put it to actual 10 BTDC

and now that i realize,
the main problem here is it did it when timing was at 29 degrees WOT (with maf) which makes the tables irrelevant. how lean from .85 WOT would i have to go to start pinging? the wot vs fuel mult is also .95 i hope it's not going lean.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:21 pm

I dont even understand what your asking

just pull timing where its pinging and dial in your fuel
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:44 pm

i'll try, but when i had MAF it would ping in the same scenario, with much less timing. just the same issue. what would cause high load AND rpm pinging BESIDES timing too advanced?
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:30 pm

thats it, pinging means theres too much timing for that combustion, being severly lean under very high airmass will cause it too but regardless pull timing in that area
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94 5spd Rionda
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:30 am

odd. i'll just take a couple degrees out then. and then of course, i'll be back with another question. lol it never ends for the tinkerers
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:54 am

lol yep thats what its all about
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93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:14 pm

you know what it sounds like now? a failed vacuum valve. when i went back to SD i forgot the MAP vacuum line, put the valve in backwards to get back on the road, and i don't even know if it's what it should be like now. it's a 3 way. i get the same noise at decel, where it's a deeper pitch. (if anybody asks, it's some special electric blow off valve)

so far, the tires have lost ALL grip under strong accel. and being that i have an open diff it's not even cool!

i also managed to get mpg up to about 25.5, it's rather hard to keep the pedal to where the mph stays the same. is there a method to making it easier to reach stable cruise?
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:47 am

i lost to a subaru sti :( i'm depressed. from a stand still, we're almost even. but he wanted a 30mph roll so i said sure, then i heard the turbo spool up. no contest.

on a bright note, i've decided to rebuild my own AOD. i'm too picky for my own good, so i can go and do it my way.

this is basically just my build thread now. anything more, i might just move it to the right area.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:47 pm

its all good man, if u want, start a build thread in the garage section, it helps to keep a record of progress along the way
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:45 pm

can i get your opinion on these spark plugs? the dark metal plug (different from the other) had a problem with misfiring. i believe. i gapped them all wider with a better coil and its completly gone now. that one was the worst, but none of them look very good.
Image

Image
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:16 pm

yep looks like it was misfiring a tad and looks to be a little overadvanced

cant see the base but looks rich down low and at idle
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:34 am

the one that had been misfiring had a pure white ceramic piece, all the way down. i couldn't get a shot down the inside. all the others had a bit of a yellow discoloration like this one. i'm not sure what the backstrap is?
anyways, startup was rich, idle was a mess, both fixed now. the over advancing could be when the eec and pip sensor both failed and it wasn't controlling spark correctly.

i'm just making sure i don't have to worry about tuning it anymore. i can fine tune when i get a wideband. ALSO, passed smog. pretty easily. spark tables-20, thermactor on. pleasantly surprised!
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:37 am

cool, toss some new plugs in it then look at the new plugs after you make a pull
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
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00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:48 pm

i've now removed two AOD's for my rebuild project. the last one was actually a 91 supercoupe, lucky find! before that one i was having a go at an 03 crown vic COP cruiser for the better gearing. it would be an understatement to say that it was the worst thing ive ever attempted on a car. EVER. who even thinks of press fit crossmembers??? i gave up at the flywheel bolts. it might have been welded on for all i know. NOW all that's left is finding another 4r70w, putting it all together, and buying a silverfox valvebody.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:50 pm

why silverfox valve body?
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
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00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:40 pm

well i give him credit for owning a Lincoln Mark VII like myself. i'm confident from reviews and his knowledge that he's shared with me and his forum community, that his one at a time custom valve bodies do the job better than any shift kits, and cheaper than art carr, etc. valve bodies.

i'm not an easy customer, and he's been helping me out with my rebuild. that's got to count too. after it's all done, i'll have an AOD70W and i'll post up a review. then i'll really be able to tell you why i went SF with it.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:52 pm

thats cool

shoot him a link to the site and see if he wants to join

would be cool to have a trans guru on board
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:27 pm

he also said that their forum needs a tuning guru.. lol. some mixing on the 4r70w controls could benefit. i'll pass it to next time we talk.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:54 pm

after some cold start tip-in issues, i can feel the spark plugs starting to fail. i'm going through plugs a lot faster than i should. they really can't handle abuse, can they?
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby decipha » Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:07 pm

if your fouling plugs you need to dig into it and find why

plugs should last no less than 50k miles

I recently replaced the original motorcraft plugs in my 01 harley truck with 194k miles, gap came out to 0.072 but she ran perfectly fine
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:34 pm

it usually shows up after the engine goes rich. like the tip in, it went rich and died, and i had to clear out the fuel to get it to start up again. it happened 2 or 3 times, and then it starts misfiring (in which the plugs are always the cause) at low rpm/medium load.
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby red5.0fogger » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:35 pm

Keep in mind that plugs foul from rich fueling or oil in the chamber. They can't foul themselves. The fuel system does that to them from a problem or incorrect settings.


edit: the plugs from nov don't look fouled. Is that how they will still look when you are having trouble with them?
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Re: my experience with going back to SD

Unread postby YaBoyHalle » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:41 am

i believe it's going rich from the vacuum line that leaks during high vacuum. enough so that it just messes with decels/idle and causes random rich conditions.

yeah, the spark plugs look exactly like that when they start missing.
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