1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Place for your vehicle notes and blow-by-blow build threads.
ATPCR
Posts: 148
Joined: 2023 Feb 18, 22:25
Location: Hazel Green Alabama USA
Vehicle Information: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 that originally had a wasted spark ignition system. I'm converting to coil-near-plug. I will use a 4.6 Luxury Sedan PCM & modified powertrain harness. It will be reprogrammed to operate the Windsor 5.0.

1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by ATPCR »

About 3 years ago on my way to the big city to run errands, I suddenly noticed the check engine light blinking steadily. Then the truck just shut down. At first, I thought it was the electric fuel pump had failed. After towing it to the house and began to diagnose the problem, I determined it wasn't the fuel pump, but one of the two wasted spark coils had burnt up. On the bottom it had a crack across one of the two pair coils. I drove to the shop and picked up a pair that I had that was bolted to an 8 plug 1993 2300 4-cylinder engine. The coils have the same part numbers. I changed the plug wires to the new ones that had been needing to be changed. So far, each old plug was used up to the point that they measured about .140. I put in the 2nd new fuse that has to do with the PCM fuel pump etc. It started up and ran for about 20 seconds then I heard a loud pop. It burnt up a second coil and then a 3rd. As I was changing the rest of the spark plugs, I broke one of in the head. Including the hex part that the socket was on. After a failed attempt to remove I towed the Mountaineer to my shop where the real tools are. To make a long story short, between heating the area of the head around the spark plug hole and pounding a long 1/4" extension down into the spark plug, I put a ratchet on the extension and backed the rest of the plug out. I checked the new plugs and wires with my ohm meter, and they all checked out good. I installed another coil and within a few seconds, burnt it up. I rounded up two more, burnt them up and then ordered two cheapies, burnt them up too. I burnt up seven good coils. After much internet searching and not finding anyone who ever had been through the same thing that I had, I figured that I either had a burnt-up coil driver in the PCM or a PCM harness issue. I am still not sure. I don't have the PCM harness all the way removed yet, but I haven't found a visible problem with it. It sat in the penalty box for two years until last February before I decided to convert it to coil-near-plug using the Holley Terminator X system. Now I have shifted away from the Holley plan and use a 1999 to 2004 Crown Vic Harness and the 2003-2004 PCM per recommendation From Michael P.
97-5.0engine.jpg
I originally purchased some Holley Smart coil brackets for a Chevy and I had planned to flip the over to work better with FoMoCo's angled plugs. I will sell these and have me some brackets made for some 7.3 Ford coils. Thanks, Stephen, for the info.
97-5.0holleycoilbracket.JPG
Knowing that I would need some extra space between the Upper intake plenum and the valve covers for the coils, I purchased a 1" spacer made out of Delrin. I have only used phenolic in the past so this will be an experimental piece. Aluminum would be great and I'm pretty sure ones are being made from aluminum but I'm going to give this a try. It came with the necessary longer bolts and gaskets.
97mmspacer.jpg
I have bought several maintenance parts to replace while I'm doing the conversion. New water pump, timing chain and gears. Fel-Pro gaskets etc.
One thing that always has bugged me about this truck is an FL1A filter will not fit it, and it had a pass thru cooler thing that I wanted to remove. So, I purchased a block/filter adaptor, 3/4-16 I think, that fits an FL1A filter. I also bought an oil filter relocation kit.
More pictures later when I find them...

Greg in north Alabama
red5.0fogger
Posts: 148
Joined: 2021 Mar 22, 15:58
Location: Newington CT
Vehicle Information: 1986 Mustang GT, Stock block, TFS 170 Heads , N41 cam, ported cobra intake, nitrous, T5 , 3.73s

Re: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by red5.0fogger »

Coil drivers in an ecu are fairly reliable and will mostly just burn open, rather than short out. Even if it burned out it and shorted somehow, it most likely would not burn out coil packs. The most likely thing you have going on is melted wire harness from being near hot exhaust or similar components. Probably several power and ground wires all melted together.
ATPCR
Posts: 148
Joined: 2023 Feb 18, 22:25
Location: Hazel Green Alabama USA
Vehicle Information: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 that originally had a wasted spark ignition system. I'm converting to coil-near-plug. I will use a 4.6 Luxury Sedan PCM & modified powertrain harness. It will be reprogrammed to operate the Windsor 5.0.

Re: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by ATPCR »

Thanks red for the tip on knowing what to look for as I remove and dissect the old, wasted spark harness. I know there is definitely something wrong, I just haven't seen it yet. As I get my mind back into this project, I realize that I may have another issue that I overlooked. The injectors and fuel pump/tank have been sitting for 3 years with 87 octane pump gas in them. Normally I would run a vehicle out of fuel if it were going to sit for a while but was unable to do so because of the operating system failure. This week I will hotwire the fuel pump at the pink/black stripe wire at the inertia switch to run the pump to empty the tank. Fuel condition will tell me a lot. As laborious as it is to get to where the injectors are, I may should replace them. I will individually test them. They are original FoMoCos. Is there anywhere to send them off to be reconditioned or just purchase a set of reconditioned Ford injectors? I'm not building a race vehicle, so I see no need to change from their poundage. This powertrain eventually ends up in my 1954 F100 street truck project. 8.8 included.
ADDED at a later date:I did remove several gallons of fuel that looked good and didn't smell stale. I ran it in my "beater" V-6 Explorer with no issues.
ATPCR
Posts: 148
Joined: 2023 Feb 18, 22:25
Location: Hazel Green Alabama USA
Vehicle Information: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 that originally had a wasted spark ignition system. I'm converting to coil-near-plug. I will use a 4.6 Luxury Sedan PCM & modified powertrain harness. It will be reprogrammed to operate the Windsor 5.0.

Re: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by ATPCR »

On the Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0 there is not enough room between the engine and the frame rail for an FL1A without some sort of angled block adapter. I have the 3/4-16" block/filter adapter and decided to go ahead and install a remote filter relocation kit.
101_0171.JPG
Wow! It says made in USA
101_0160.JPG
3/4-16" block to oil filter adapter
101_0168.JPG
Very short Explorer water pump
101_0169.JPG
FelPro water pump/timing cover gasket set
ATPCR
Posts: 148
Joined: 2023 Feb 18, 22:25
Location: Hazel Green Alabama USA
Vehicle Information: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 that originally had a wasted spark ignition system. I'm converting to coil-near-plug. I will use a 4.6 Luxury Sedan PCM & modified powertrain harness. It will be reprogrammed to operate the Windsor 5.0.

Re: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by ATPCR »

Last week I was finally able to put my hands back on my truck which is the center of this greater project. I've spent a lot of time asking questions, doing research, purchasing hardware, not receiving hardware, purchasing software, learning how to upload software etc, but I'll get back into that a few weeks. Back to the 1997 Mercury Mountaineer that has the last of the good old 5.0s and a 4R70W Transmission. I'm following through with the coil near plug conversion. Here is the point that I'm at as of last week. Late February I had to seal up the engine and put the project on hold while tending to some other things. Picture is from 10-23-23. Late February I stuck a plexiglass block of plate to the lower intake with several dots of RTV.
1997eng102423-01.jpg
I removed the left valve cover for cleaning and bracket(s) removal.
1997eng102423-02.jpg
I removed the fuel line bracket that will interfere with the coil near plug brackets. AN fittings, AN/Ford fuel line adapters and braided fuel hose will replace the original factory Ford fuel lines.
1997eng102423-03.jpg
The oil crud buildup is minimal for a 250K engine.
1997eng102423-04.jpg
I cleaned up the valve cover and gave it a new coat of black paint. This vehicle is a daily driver and not a show or race vehicle so nothing fancy.
1997eng102423-05.jpg
And valve cover back on. Not bad for a 2+hour work session.
1997eng102423-06.jpg
Tuesday at lunchtime, I was able to put in some more time on the MM engine. I barely had the 2nd bolt out of the RH passenger side USA, valve cover and my cell phone rang. it was the owner of the local fab shop that is working on my bracket for the coils. ~17, maybe 18 weeks earlier I took a 12"x24" 3/16" thick piece of aluminum, and without his permission or an ok from Stephen Riner, a conceptual picture of his bracket design. SR, I hope you don't mind, and I do know there was a fitment issue on your SN95 Mustang. Stephen, I did attempt to contact you first. I'm still waiting on the fab shop to call back for me to get a 1:1 scale paper template to glue to cardboard to check the fit of what they come up with. So, at that point I finished removing all 6 RH valve cover bolts and shifted to putting the accessory brackets back on the engine. RH valve cover picture shows the oil fill neck/tube. It will interfere with the RH CNP bracket.
1997eng102523-01.jpg
Even though I generally have too many projects going on, I try to stay organized within each project. My wife acts if I'm a bit anal about keeping the empty coffee and creamer cans. I occasionally grab a few sandwich Ziplock's. Don't leave a stray black Sharpie laying around either. ;-)
I stopped working on the valve cover to temporarily to reinstall the 2 accessory brackets. The bolts were right where I left them in late February.
In a can on the floorboard with the brackets.
1997eng102523-02.jpg
I can clearly see that on the RH side of the engine that the Riner preliminary/detailed design could interfere with the alternator and bracket. No, I'm not knocking Stephen. I think it a very good design.
This is a straight down shot of the alternator and valve cover.
1997eng102523-04.jpg
I have a bit of left side bracket interference too. I'll need to notch for one of the ps reservoir hoses and drill and tap new holes to move the "tank" forward an inch.
1997engPSpumpbracketmod.jpg
I'm still working on removing the entire powertrain harness from the MM. My Explorer comrades that I have, say to remove an access panel that is located beneath the console to access the connectors for the O2 sensors and transmission connections. FUN. Not bad really with the instructions. I already have the '99 Crown Vic harness removed and will be fashioning a "hybrid" harness out of the two harnesses.
I should be hearing from the fab guy before the end of the week, and I would like to remove the RH valve cover and modify it and have it back on in the same day. I'm looking on google for a 1/2" steel pipe thread bung.https://www.google.com/search?q=1%2F2%2 ... nt=gws-wiz I didn't think that I would find one so easily. That's the piece I need for an oil fill hole that a long skinny transmission funnel will fit in to put motor oil in this machine. More on that next time.
ATPCR
Posts: 148
Joined: 2023 Feb 18, 22:25
Location: Hazel Green Alabama USA
Vehicle Information: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 that originally had a wasted spark ignition system. I'm converting to coil-near-plug. I will use a 4.6 Luxury Sedan PCM & modified powertrain harness. It will be reprogrammed to operate the Windsor 5.0.

Re: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by ATPCR »

I recently received the Moates Quarterhorse so I have done what little I can do on the side, mainly add software to the laptop and confirm that the TunerPro RT is recognizing it. I have to get ALL of the electrical and mechanical powertrain work completed before I can get into an RT situation.
moatesqhdel.jpg
Saturday the 28th, I was briefly at my shop, mainly to check the mail because I'm patiently waiting for an expensive package from ECUTools. The Saturday delivery people have decided it is OK to throw packages over the 6 ft fence. NO, it's not.
While I was there, I wanted to know how deep the "pocket" for the PCM is. The Moates QH sticks out of the PCM about 3/8". I was using a ruler to see how deep it is and discovered that it is open in the back. Maybe there is room to get the cable from the Moates to the laptop via this opening.
pcmpocketdepth.jpg
When I was measuring, I discovered that the pocket does not have a back.
I contacted an Explorer friend who has his dashboard removed form his truck during a full build. In the picture you can see a little vertical bridge. It would interfere with the Moates QH.
pcmpocketvbridge.jpg
I went back home to my very small workshop where I have a '99 Ranger with the dash PAD dissected off of the AC/heater and ductwork assembly and I could barely see the back of the PCM pocket. I could see the barcode on the PCM and it was 1/4" from the vertical bridge. This piece will need cut out of the way for the Moates QH clearance. Fortunately it is plastic. I reached my hand over the blend door motor and I can get within 2" of the PCM pocket. I need a hook to snag the laptop cable as a helper sticks the cable through the pocket from underneath the hood. In my "stuff" I found a piece of 1/4" soft aluminum off of an old telephone pole. I hammered the end flat and bent it over to make a hook.
hook1.jpg
The 2nd picture of the hook can be seen right up behind the pocket. When the cable gets threaded through there, only the person from the under hood side is going to be able to see it. The under dash person will have to follow the directions of the 1st person. The Mountaineer dash pad will be in place blocking visibility. The 1980 something all the way up to 2004 Mustang owners don't have this issue because of the PCM being located in the passenger kick panel.
hook2.jpg
More having to do with this later.
bad86capri
Posts: 163
Joined: 2021 Feb 16, 10:09
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle Information: 1986 Capri 306, Twisted Wedge heads, RPM II Intake, Anderson B3 cam, 80Lbs Siemens Injectors, MAC Longtube Headers, G-Force T5, Spec 6 Puck Clutch, Ford Racing Aluminum Driveshaft.

Re: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by bad86capri »

After reading this thead, you got me interested. I will be following!
ATPCR
Posts: 148
Joined: 2023 Feb 18, 22:25
Location: Hazel Green Alabama USA
Vehicle Information: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 that originally had a wasted spark ignition system. I'm converting to coil-near-plug. I will use a 4.6 Luxury Sedan PCM & modified powertrain harness. It will be reprogrammed to operate the Windsor 5.0.

Re: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by ATPCR »

Original timing chain/gear set cover and new water pump cleaned & painted light gray sitting ready except for installing crankshaft seal.
1997timingcover waterpump.jpg
1997engbracketsdirty.jpg
1997engbracketscleanRTP.jpg
1997engbracketspainted.PNG
Brackets after going through the cleaning, blasting and painting process.
RinerAuto
Posts: 100
Joined: 2021 Apr 14, 15:30
Location: Portsmouth, Virginia
Vehicle Information: 1994 Mustang
302W w/RZASA and CNP
YouTube: RinerAutomotive
Instagram: RinerAutomotive

Re: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by RinerAuto »

Hey, sorry I haven't been on this site for a little while. Looking good. Yea I made the mistake of drawing up the coil brackets without all the pieces installed on the engine (ie alternator). Then on the driver side there is contact with no 8 coil and brake booster. Oh well it's good enough for a race car.
ATPCR
Posts: 148
Joined: 2023 Feb 18, 22:25
Location: Hazel Green Alabama USA
Vehicle Information: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 that originally had a wasted spark ignition system. I'm converting to coil-near-plug. I will use a 4.6 Luxury Sedan PCM & modified powertrain harness. It will be reprogrammed to operate the Windsor 5.0.

Re: 1997 Mountaineer 5.0 for Coil-near-plug swap

Unread post by ATPCR »

This project is creeping but moving forward. I'm half outside with this project so I'm being controlled by the climate.
Before we were all froze in for a week, I picked up a template bracket that was based off of the Riner design.
test bracket.jpg
Wednesday I received an email from the fab shop with a pic of the adjusted bracket design for my Mountaineer/Explorer.
One end had to be adjusted because of AC box interference. The bottom was shortened a quarter of an inch from Stephens design and the coils slid up a half of an inch. Also I will be using only 3 holes for the bracket mounting.
cnp bracket jesse final version.JPG
(6.5 KiB) Not downloaded yet
(Editing comment: In the HTML or whatever language I can't see why it wants to be downloaded as opposed to showing the pic)
I attempted to use a drawing program to make a file to send to send-cut-send but I couldn't ever get the hang of the program. Fortunately there is a really up to date Fab shop 2 miles from me.
Two weeks back when working with the test bracket, I was having a wacky header issue. One "Godzilla" coil blowing right at a header tube. I have found a temporary solution for the RH side but nor the left, until custom log headers can be fabricated.
test fit bracket 01.jpg
test fit bracket 02.jpg
Test bracket is touching the AC box and coil too.
test fit bracket 03.jpg
test fit bracket 04.jpg
Right side manifold to do away with header interference.
1977 mustang 2 rh exhaust manifold.JPG
(7.69 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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