New guy to this forum and 5.0 Coyote log

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New guy to this forum and 5.0 Coyote log

Unread postby My427stang » Sun May 14, 2017 7:14 am

Thanks in advance, new to the forum, I am an A9L retrofit guy to a 70 Mustang big block, but working on a 2011 GT Mustang with Bama tunes. I do not have the ability to go inside the tune on this one, but looking for advice on how to solve a drivability problem

Here's the scoop, hope someone can help. Before that, I want to point out that the guys that built the tune are very helpful and trying to figure out what is going on. I cannot figure out if it is tune related or something else and hoping someone has seen similar. The bottom line is during normal driving, it seems like the throttle is non-linear and when driving like you would in front of the police, all of a sudden, at 2500-ish the car leaps and exhaust goes loud you either have the choice of flooring it and driving through, or if you let off, it's like a new kid driving a clutch. On off switch throttle at low loads almost like the TB sticks and slams past a certain point

- 2011 Mustang, GT 5.0, 6 speed
- Been in a couple of shops, but so far, has long tube headers, offroad X pipe, Borla mufflers, showed up to me that way, stock tune, check engine light on with stock top end, but drivable
- Brought me a Cobra jet intake, TB, cold air kit, which I installed and it went very easy, had to change to the Boss 302 purge valve and repin the TPS/elecronic throttle, but very straightforward. All pinouts checked, although I will likely check one more time, the instructions were easy and the pinout for the TB were real easy
- Bama tune in an SCT X4 designed for the whole system, but I cannot see inside the tune with anything I have. A little idle fluctuation, but barely, the problem is very odd twitchy throttle, and doesn't seem to be a mixture issue, seems to be a sensitive throttle issue
- When you accelerate in 1st, 2nd or 3rd, you hit about 2500 rpm and the exhaust barks LOUD and the car seems to act like the throttle opens on it's own and it leaps to the point that in 1st, you start hopping like someone learning to drive a clutch for the first time.
- In 4th, 5th and 6th, there is enough load that it isn't so violent, but in 1st or second, it goes from docile to tire spin, you could never drive in front of a cop, he'd arrest you.
- If it helps, I drove through it in 1st and second and it almost felt like the throttle delayed from what my foot was doing when i let off to shift, in other words, I sort of thought I had a stuck throttle for an "oh crap" millisecond, but it came down right after
- In the high gears where there is a load, it seems to be OK, but I have to assume it's happening, it just doesn't make the car leap
- I can "almost" drive it normal if I brace my knee against the dash so when it takes off, my foot doesn't jerk and move the throttle, but still a "light switch" kind of change in the 2500 rpm range

The commanded TB and actual TB in the log match pretty close, so I am having a tough time figuring out why it's so violent. I expected the two to be wonky. I attached a log that Bama asked me to provide. In this log I drive down the street like I have an egg under my foot and when I accelerate leaps and I go to the next gear. Most of the little peaks are in 1st and second, but on the return trip I am in 5th and putting a load at low rpm

Bama is still looking, and by no means indicating that they aren't trying to help, those guys hung with me until 7 PM on Saturday, very helpful. However wondering if you guys see anything that can help me talk them to target, or if you see something missing from the log that may help, or something that may indicate a bad TB or something I did. I am a very experience builder FWIW, so I'd tell you if something was wonky, but it was about the easiest install I have done. Bolt on, clean, 14K mile car, nothing out of the ordinary until I took off down the road

Right now the car is very very difficult to drive but I do have it for for a few more days if another log is needed

Thanks in advance
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My427stang
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Re: New guy to this forum and 5.0 Coyote log

Unread postby decipha » Sun May 14, 2017 8:25 am

with the throttle body change they have to update the effective throttle and prediction tables, if thats not right then everything is going to be a band aid

im not at my laptop to check the log but make sure your logging throttle angle error, if using an sct x4 with livelink gen2 you can setup a histogram to have it populate the average throttle angle error with load and rpm making up the table axis scaling, if theres more than a +/- 10% average error then that needs to be dialed in or youll have them issues

make sure they leave the driver demand table bone stock, any changes in that table has been known to cause corruption in some tunes, most notably 2015+ but regardless

more than likely the torque tables need to be kicked up in that 2500 rpm range, make sure they populate the inverse tables based on the axis scaling so it calculates correctly, they should know that

if the tq error is greater than 50 then the ecu will try to reduce throttle to reach the expected tq and cause those exact issues
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Re: New guy to this forum and 5.0 Coyote log

Unread postby My427stang » Sun May 14, 2017 8:50 am

Thanks Decipha

They said the tune matched the dual 65 mm TB, but not sure what they did to get there. I do not see avg throttle angle error in my log, I will build another one log it
My427stang
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Re: New guy to this forum and 5.0 Coyote log

Unread postby My427stang » Wed May 17, 2017 6:58 am

So, they sent me a new file, actually made it worse. Very nice guys, but they don't explain what they changed and to be honest, I am not sure what I am seeing in the logs I send to them.

Originally, I could have been talked into the TB motor having a problem and/or sticking, but with this current load, it almost seems like it's very soft and potentially a lean surge with cylinders dropping off, then it comes on like gangbusters.

If willing to interpret what I have, or recommendations, I'd appreciate it. Additionally, if 100% certain on the fix, I could likely get the customer to spend money for another tune that fixes this, but before I recommended it, I'd have to be sure I knew what was wrong. B/L not asking for freebies, but the car is stranded now and we need to make progress

Datalog#4 is their revised (and worse) tune currently in the car

Thanks very much in advance
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My427stang
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Re: New guy to this forum and 5.0 Coyote log

Unread postby decipha » Wed May 17, 2017 7:30 am

without having the full specs on the vehicle and going through the tune myself anything I see would only be a guess

based on the info you've provided the car seems to be basically stock with minor bolt on's, the biggest issue is going to be the throttle body change, unless they have the info for the throttle body (which it doesn't sound like they do) then they are going to have to dial it in manually, that's not something im going to be able to do remotely or by looking over the logs without having the actual tune file to see what they have plugged into the tables

see if they are willing to send you the .mtf file, if so either post it here or shoot it to me and i'll take a look through it and see if anything is off
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decipha
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Location: New Orleans, LA
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: New guy to this forum and 5.0 Coyote log

Unread postby My427stang » Fri May 19, 2017 5:20 am

Thanks, I got it out of my shop last night. It's not making the power it should, but I asked them for a very specific and easy tune. Bone stock, off road pipe,CAI, and twin 65mm TB. Loaded it and it ran beautiful, not real fast, but ran beautiful.

The owner purchased unlimited tunes from Bama, and will hopefully work his way up to something good, but at least we know we don't have an electric or install problem and he always has something to return to.

BTW I have a few .cef files, is that something you can look inside?
My427stang
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Re: New guy to this forum and 5.0 Coyote log

Unread postby decipha » Fri May 19, 2017 6:33 am

no .cef are locked to the xcal SN, the mtf is the actual tune file, i replied to your PM
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decipha
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Posts: 12956
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: New guy to this forum and 5.0 Coyote log

Unread postby My427stang » Fri May 26, 2017 5:34 am

Update to everyone, we ended up going stock tune with only the TB, CAI and off road pipe changed, the car ran well. Not much quicker than stock, but at least it allowed some troubleshooting. Likely going to attempt to build off that tune slowly because nobody has figured out what was wrong with the performance tune. In the end, glad to see it wasn't a bad TB motor or binding TB, it was all in the tune
My427stang
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Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 6:50 am
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