Major surging on first A9L2 start

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Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:22 pm

I started my car for the first time with a moates quarterhorse and the A9L2 bin. Started right up but has mass of surging 500 to 1500.

Data logging shows oxygen sensor number 2 fluctuating around .205 millivolt. O2 #1 was showing .800 or so.

I am assuming bad O2? Would that cause the surging?
89fast5oh
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Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: Major surgery on first A9L2 start

Unread postby decipha » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:32 pm

no the o2 voltage is absolutely useless its a narrowband not a wideband

you most likely need to open the throttle stop
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Re: Major surgery on first A9L2 start

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:53 pm

decipha wrote:no the o2 voltage is absolutely useless its a narrowband not a wideband

you most likely need to open the throttle stop


This was all at idle, I haven't driven it yet. I assumed since it showed such a low voltage it was dumping fuel to try and richen it up.
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Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:57 pm

I'm thinking it might be something in my A9L2 tune. I adjusted all the items recommend on the start page. I tried the A9L2 as supplied by decipha and it idled better without the surging.
89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
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Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby decipha » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:00 pm

once it goes in to closed loop the hego will start switching, if its not in closed loop then the hego voltage isn't really important just telling you if its lean or rich but not by how much
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Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:24 pm

So I don't think it is my throttle stop screw. I loaded your stock A9L2 with no modifications and it started and idled smooth at 800 RPM. AFR is so lean it doesn't register on the gauge. A light cruise around shows extremely lean conditions.

When I load the A9L2 with 7 basic changes that need to be made, the idle rolls from roughly 700-1300. When it hits 1300 RPM the AFR hits 16:1 and then the RPMs fall down to 700 while the AFR follows down to 12.5:1. It repeats this over and over. Never stalling just always surging.

It is extremely rich even cruising at 35mph in 3rd gear. Wideband was showing 12:1 AFR. But using your A9L2 tune with my 47lbs injectors it is extremely lean. I must have something messed up.

Mind having a look at the idle log, cruise log, and bin? When I made the changes to the A9L2 I renamed it A9L3 so I wouldn't confuse them.
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89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
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Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby decipha » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:34 am

you just need to dial in the fuel
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:32 am

I was reading through the how to's and the timing and fueling pages.

You have a emphasis on 10 degrees BTDC. I had always set the advance as far as 16 degrees BTDC on previous engines. When I timed the engine yesterday I set it to 16* BTDC.

Is the 10* BTDC only for tunes you provide, or does it need to be 10* BTDC for the A9L2?
89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
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Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby decipha » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:30 am

all eec's are hard programmed for 10 dbtdc, anything other than that will screw up every calculation in the ecu

with a stock tune the only way to add timing is to go twist the distributor but when custom tuning its critical the distributor be set correctly to the ford spec
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:53 am

decipha wrote:all eec's are hard programmed for 10 dbtdc, anything other than that will screw up every calculation in the ecu

with a stock tune the only way to add timing is to go twist the distributor but when custom tuning its critical the distributor be set correctly to the ford spec


Ok I will set it to 10* BTDC and do a base idle reset.

What should I do if I can't get stable idle? It is strange that the A9L2 causes the surging but the stock A9L idles smooth.
89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby decipha » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:03 am

yea thats strange, most likely your fuel is off
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Posts: 15691
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:51 pm

Will I even be able to set the base idle if the fuel is so far off on the rich end?

I will be honest. I thought I had a grasp on what it would take to tune this myself, but I am not sure. I think I have read so many things, I am going in circles.

To dial in fuel, do I start with the MAF transfer kg/hr? Is adjusting the MAF transfer the main item to dialing in fuel?
89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby decipha » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:55 pm

no

yep
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decipha
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Posts: 15691
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:11 pm

decipha wrote:no

yep


Should I also set my wideband to read out in lambda? I have it in AFR because in my mind I can quickly recall what the range means.

If it is pegging the wideband in full rich at idle and 1500 rpm cruise, any idea how much % to adjust the MAF transfer as a start? I assume to take out a % over the entire range? I was thinking trying 20% as a starting point.
89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: Major surging on first A9L2 start

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:53 pm

I think I figured it out. I took the A9L2 bin and re-entered my 7 combo specific variables. Fired it up and things were much better. It actually idled. The AFR was reading around 15:1.

Maybe I corrupted the MAF Transfer the first time or something. Then without knowing what I was doing, I was INCREASING the MAF flow, making it richer and richer.

I ended up taking 10% out of the curve from points 9-29 and a little bit out at points 8 & 9. 8 & 9 is where it idles.
89fast5oh
General Poster
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.


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