MAF Scaling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Vehicle specific forum for tuning the Foxbody Chassis Mustangs utilizing the LUX0, GUFA, GUFB, and GUF1 Strategy

MAF Scaling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:29 am

Hello,

I am very new to all of this. I have read and read and read posts, write ups, references, and how to's for the last 5 days.

I think I am headed in the right direction with things. I started with the A9L2 base tune. I know that the A9L2 will need adjustments for a lot of parameters, but is the A9L2 superior to the A9L in every way?

I used a spreadsheet tool to convert my 9 point MAF transfer to a 30 point. The 28th point reads 1273.04 kg/hr and the 29th, & 30th points read 1587.65 kg/hr.

0.000 5.70
0.000 5.70
0.172 5.70
0.344 12.99
0.516 20.91
0.688 29.78
0.859 40.24
1.031 52.28
1.203 66.54
1.375 83.64
1.547 103.92
1.719 127.68
1.891 155.25
2.063 186.93
2.235 223.05
2.406 263.92
2.578 309.55
2.750 359.92
2.922 415.69
3.094 476.52
3.266 543.05
3.438 615.29
3.610 693.87
3.781 779.41
3.953 872.56
4.125 974.58
4.297 1086.42
4.550 1273.04
4.900 1587.65
16.000 1587.65

After reading the page about Scaling AIRFLOW - SCALING PERCENT, I just want to be certain since I am under 1750 kg/hr that I don't need to apply a scaling percent to anything listed in the chart, eg, CID, MAF, Injector Low/High Slopes, Breakpoint, Manifold Volume, Inferred Airmass.

LOAD & PERLOAD

I understand PERLOAD controls Fuel and LOAD controls Spark.

FN035 - Do I need to adjust the load values?

Sea Level Spark

The sea level spark table has values on the X axis, but none on Y axis. The stock A9L has values on the Y axis.

Do I need to enter my own load values on the X axis? Where do those values come from?
89fast5oh
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Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: MAF Saclling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby decipha » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:18 am

by your post its obvious youve done a bunch of reading, thats excellent

the stock a9l tune has a bunch of innacurate data in it from the factory. Its obvious different teams were working on it and didnt fully understand the control flow as some of the thinga in it are just wrong. The wot multiplier makes it impossible to dial in a tune and those fuel errors are not fixed in base fuel which causes fuel errors in closed loop. The backflow clip is just stupid low and the startup rpm adders were screwy, looks like an entry level person attempted to dial in startup air. The spark is ibterpolated from lugging altitude and sealevel yet wot is a function and doesnt account for any changes in airmass strictly rpm based which is not ideal. The base fuel table is a mess and startup enrichment over compensates the base fuel table. Suffice to say its not ideal. The a9l2 fixes all that simplifies spark to just the fn2200 table and fuel is simplified to FN035 the perload scaling function. I also have safeties written in there auch as overheat protection and changing the ect spark retard table to act for much greater resolution. I have the pump prime time kicked up to 3 sec along with changing and moving the size of scaling functions here and there for greater resolution. I could go on but you get the idea.

correct your maf doesnt exceed the ecus calculation abilities so no need to scale anything.

fn035 is dialed in by logging. I have a histogram setup in tunerpro. after you get your fuel dialed in go wot and let the histogram populate. You'll see theres 4 columns or so, the last is wot, if you have an n/a setup then use that error which is the logged perload value as the correction for fn035.

your looking at the wrong spark table. You have to go under tuning >> spark and youll see fn2200 the extended spark table.
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Re: MAF Saclling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:53 am

I can't figure out where to find tuning >> spark fn2200 extended spark table.

I'm using TunerProRT V5

I attached what the tables I found look like.

I have renamed the changes I have made to the A9L2.bin as A9L3.bin, just for my own records.

Image
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89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: MAF Saclling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby decipha » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:42 pm

thats cuz you dont have tunerpro setup correctly and you dont have the correct strategy loaded

read the getting started write up on the homepage
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Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
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03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: MAF Saclling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:45 pm

decipha wrote:thats cuz you dont have tunerpro setup correctly and you dont have the correct strategy loaded

read the getting started write up on the homepage


I figured out what my problem was. I had a few year old version of TunerProRT V5. The other day when I tried to get going it wouldn't load the GUFX_180124.xdf so I used the GUFB_56K.

The "Getting Started" page makes more sense now.

The fn2200 extended spark table is all populated now.

The only thing I don't like now is that the Parameter Tree > view by parameter type are no longer alphabetical. Hard to find things quickly.
89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: MAF Saclling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby decipha » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:59 pm

thats cuz u supposed to view it by category
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decipha
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Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: MAF Scaling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:09 pm

Set it to view by category. Much better. I was used to using it with a 1991 GM 350 TPI bin and strategy and it listed everything in alphabetical order.
89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: MAF Scaling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:10 pm

Would you mind having a look to see if I missed anything in the base setup?
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89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: MAF Scaling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby decipha » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:10 pm

if u covered everything in the a9l2 write up then your good to fire it up n start tuning
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decipha
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Posts: 15311
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: MAF Scaling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:59 pm

The only things I wanted to know about were the fn2200 & fn035 tables.

You said the fn035 was to be changed later after logging with actual load values?

Does the fn2200 need changed on the Y axis or on the X axis which are the actual spark values?

I am confused that the Y axis on fn035 and fn2200 are represented in a decimal number.

On fn2200 does 0.10, 0.20, 0.30 ect. represent 10%, 20%, 30% load?

It also seems my decimal places on injector offset, MAF transfer, ect have been rounded off. Will that be a problem?

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89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: MAF Scaling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby decipha » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:30 am

correct you dial in fn035 once you have your maf dialed in, at wot 0 vac / 0 boost you want perload to == 1.00, I have a histogram setup un tunerpro to do it for you

neither the x nor the y axis needs to be changed, where did you read that?

yes .1 == 10% load, I use the actual ford equation which has the decimal

the ecu doesnt have that much resolution so values you type in get rounded to the nearest calculate-able value. Thats normal.
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Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: MAF Scaling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby 89fast5oh » Sun May 06, 2018 10:21 pm

Revisiting this thread.

Does the fn035 need changing whenever the maf transfer is changed and vice versa?

I did a wot pull and at say 5200 rpm it recorded a perload error of 1.397. If I multiply that by the .75 in the A9L2 it equals 1.04. Can there be a value greater than 100% for a NA engine? If I adjust the fn035 and keep doing 2nd gear wot pulls and keep getting a perload error, do I keep adjusting it?

The Hist_MAF is telling me to multiply most values by 1.06-1.24. It already runs .78 lambda on the AFR datalog. If I multiply the curve by that percent it will be way too rich. I read to do the MAF first then the fn035

I am excited. Someone I know in my small town bought a dyno and told us we could use it. I would like to see if all the changes I am trying to make are sending me in the right direction. Next Saturday is the planned day.
89fast5oh
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Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm
Name: Kevin
Vehicle Information: 1989 LX. 408W 10.7:1, FTI hyd roller .622"/.608" int/exh, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Victor EFI 5.8, 47lb injectors, 75mm MAF & throttle body, 1 3/4" long tubes, 2.5" full exhaust, TKO600, 4.10s.

Re: MAF Scaling, Load, & Sea Level Spark

Unread postby decipha » Sun May 06, 2018 11:57 pm

yep u have to update fn035 anytime u change the maf

if you know what mafv its at for a given rpm point you can apply the same correction percentage you applied to that maf point at that perload point, if that doesnt make sense to you just ignore it

yep many n/a engines can exceed 100 load, i highly doubt your setup can though, most likely your loosing fuel pressure if you need a value more than 85ish for your setup

the fuel error is only for closed loop what the hegos report as fuel correction, ignore it at wot and when in open loop

if your fuel error is 1.24 at wot which is invalid since its in open loop then 1 - .24 = 0.76, if your wideband reads .78 then your 2% lean amd need to multiply the maf by 1.02 at that specific mafv

since your setup is n/a when perload exceeds 1.05 the ecu calculates that your in boost and commands that richer mix, thats why its impossible to dial in fuel without knowing the commanded lambse

when you dial in fn035 and perload is between .95 and 1.05 at wot then the ecu will command the leaner .875 lambda at wot
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15311
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce


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