Load vs. Loadx

Vehicle specific forum for tuning the Foxbody Chassis Mustangs utilizing decipha's GUFX Strategy

Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby sly5paul1 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:58 pm

Can someone tell me is Loadx, which I think is loadpercent, is it a percentage of the load numbers found in fn035 Load versus RPM?

Thanks
SlyP.
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby decipha » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:20 pm

Perload is a percentage of load it can be from fn035 depending upon prldsw

Check out the fuel write up its talked about in there with detail

But with prldsw=0

Perload=load/fn035
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby sly5paul1 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:00 pm

Could you tell me the procedure for populating the fn035 table? I think I need to do a WOT pull and see what the max Load is at different rpm, but don't read the logs very well to make the decision. I have several/many logs of WOT pulls but not confident enough that I am looking at the right data to put in the table.

Thanks
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby decipha » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:10 pm

it depends

if your using the A9L2 tune then u have to use the max load at 0 boost

but otherwise, put it in second and do a WOT pull from idle to redline

stop the log and go note the load

6500
5200
3900
2600
1300

Put the max load you were able to reach at each of those rpms in FN035
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby TooSlo86 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:47 am

How I accomplish it is to do as Decipha says in making a pull from idle clear to redline. You'll notice though that the load will change depending on what gear you do it in, not much but it does change. It's best to get many WOT pulls in several gears and average out your load. What I find easiest is having a template already made up in Microsoft Excel where I plot my Y-axis as load and the X-axis as RPM. I have 3 sets of data that I plot against those axis. Load, LoadX, and EEC (or what I'm telling the eec in FN035). Obviously load is logged, while loadx is dependent upon what I tell the eec vs what it's actually seeing. What I'm looking for is my loadx line to hover over 100% clear through the rpms. If I'm off at certain points I will make adjustments accordingly. Typically what I want to see to get me close and start dialing it in is to have my "eec" line closely follow the load line. This is accomplished by changing the load, and rpm call-outs in fn035. It may sound like a lot but it really isn't if I could just upload a sample file. Since I can't at this point I'll attach a screen shot.

Green line is what I'm telling the eec in FN035, blue line is what I'm logging during a pull, and the red line is what I want to see at 100%, as you can see I'm off target, or setting the bar too high in FN035 as shown by the red line dipping below 100%.

This is most likely WAY too many words for something very simple and has probably just added confusion.
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby decipha » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:15 am

chris, that is confusing as all hell, at least to me lol

all i do is make a WOT log from idle to redline in 2nd gear, then i just look at the highest load at each of the following rpm's

6500
5200
3900
2600
1300

and i just put the max load value for each of those rpms into fn035

this of course is for an N/A engine, if its boosted, you must do a log at 0 boost
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby TooSlo86 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:11 pm

haha, understood. That does loosely accomplish the same thing, in many, many less words.

It really is simple, especially when you have a datalog template that you just paste the raw data in it's entirety into and it does all the plotting for this and several other things that I monitor/tweak regularly (read, split hairs).

I plugged in my load #'s at those particular rpm's into my file and it is relatively close (or a good starting point for me), however it does cut out, or dip below a section of rpm where I really concentrate on. If you cater your rpm call outs and load to your curve you should have a nice (relatively) smooth line hovering at 100 all the way across.

I'm sure I get entirely too concerned with having it dead-nuts on, but I'm a bit OCD about minute details, lol. If I highlight a section of data and am looking for an average of 100, that's what I want to see, if I highlight a section of data and I'm expecting a 13.15 average, that's what I want to see. I'm talking in the .25% +/- range. Obviously in the above graph that wasn't the case as loadx averaged 98.02 for the duration of the pull but this was on an inertia dyno vs being tuned on the street/track.

The difference is most likely that I have all the time in the world to split hairs on my own car vs a limited time-frame on a customer car for you.

Anyways, here is a quick "load only" worksheet. If you know excel you can play around and see exactly how simple this is. To really get crazy you would keep building upon your data collection to plug in here after each pull to give you a wider range of data to extrapolate, giving you a much more realistic idea of where to set it and forget it for many different conditions.

Ok, my job of bewildering is done :lol:
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby sly5paul1 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:01 pm

Guys, I appreciate the responses. Went out this morning and did the WOT pulls in 2nd Gear, populated fn035 and did another pull logging every pull. While it did not look as smooth as Chris log did, it look great to me. Thanks again for the help.

SlyP
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby sly5paul1 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:15 pm

If I am understanding right, Load, controls spark, should not get above 100% because that would mean the induction system is over-filling the cylinders. Load looks at CID and RPM to determine what Load is being applied.

Load% is just what percent of max load for a particular rpm we are at, at the moment and is determined by dividing load by fn035 interpolated.

Thanks
SlyP.
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MAF 30# inj. Accufab 75mm TB, Professional Products RPM styled EFI intake,
BBK Fenderwell CAI, 9:1 comp.ratio, Ford 3:55, 5-speed
Mac 1.75" Swap 3" Prochamber 2.5" flowmasters.

Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby decipha » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:07 pm

Cid and aimass MAF not rpm

Perload is only used as the input scaling to the base fuel table, as long as its in the ballpark is fine 90% perload and 105% perload wont make a difference
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby sly5paul1 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:25 pm

OK, preload is only used for determining lambses. Are the lambses in the fuel table in A9L2 suited mostly for boosted engines? If so what changes might be good for a 351w 9.5 compression, HCI or what would be the best way to determine those numbers short of a Dyno?
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Posts: 96
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Vehicle Information: 89' mustang, 351w, A9L2, BE, Quarterhorse, Z303 cam, GT40-X305 heads, 70mm
MAF 30# inj. Accufab 75mm TB, Professional Products RPM styled EFI intake,
BBK Fenderwell CAI, 9:1 comp.ratio, Ford 3:55, 5-speed
Mac 1.75" Swap 3" Prochamber 2.5" flowmasters.

Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby decipha » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:57 pm

A9L2 is setup for boost or na when your not in boost you get 12.8 when your in boost you get 11.7

thats why you dial in fn035 so when you get above 100 perload you richen up more for boost
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
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03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
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Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby sly5paul1 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:34 am

If load starts to drop off but airflow continues to go up does that mean the numbers are wrong in fn035? In the picture the RPM (green pen) start at 1100 and end at 5900. MAF is ~755 kg/h at max load which is 90 and drops off even though the MAF continues up linearly with RPM to a max of 955 Kg/hr. Again, does that indicate the load numbers in fn035 are too low? Thanks in advance.

SlyP.
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sly5paul1
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Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:00 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Name: Sylvester Paul
Vehicle Information: 89' mustang, 351w, A9L2, BE, Quarterhorse, Z303 cam, GT40-X305 heads, 70mm
MAF 30# inj. Accufab 75mm TB, Professional Products RPM styled EFI intake,
BBK Fenderwell CAI, 9:1 comp.ratio, Ford 3:55, 5-speed
Mac 1.75" Swap 3" Prochamber 2.5" flowmasters.

Re: Load vs. Loadx

Unread postby decipha » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:54 am

what happeened at 2800 rpm? Did u let go of the throttle?

load is proportionate to airflow at rpm

airflow will increase with rpm, but if that airflow isnt exponential then load will reduce accordingly

load will mimic the VE of the engine and will be highest at peak tq
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
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03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer


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