Car is super rich. reads 11afr

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Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:39 am

It took me a week but i finally installed my turbo setup with my injectors and maf. I plugged in my wideband to see what my afr was at my first startup and it cranked over and started immediately but the idle was super rough and my wideband is bouncing between 10 and 11 afr. i feel like i messed up somewhere because the car shouldn't be running this rich. any ideas?
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:52 am

i would also like to add to this that when i blip the throttle, my wideband shows 14-15 afr for a quick half second and then goes down to 9 but then back to between 10-11 afr.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby decipha » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:22 pm

sounds normal you just need to dial it in
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:24 pm

i've read something about a histogram that can dial in my fuel. since im running rich, i would like to know how the histogram works and where to apply it. I've seen it somewhere on this site but i cant find the link.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 89FiveOh » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:27 pm

It was just mentioned to me that the Tunerpro software has the historgram you may be referring to.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:31 pm

yeah. i actually opened it up and saw the boxes started filling in by itself. I just don't know what to do with those numbers. Do i take them and multiply them with some settings in the tune?
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 89FiveOh » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:54 pm

Please, please allow the gurus to verify, but I have been taught that you take the values that are being populated and multiply your kg/hr values on you MAF xfer by these to dial in your curve. If youre rich, I would think after you multiply your values, you will be left with slightly lower numbers in your MAF curve.

Make sure that the numbers are in descending order. For example, if you have 36 kg/hr at .8 volts and you have 34 kg/hr at 1 volt, the car will shut off when it reaches the out of order part of your xfer.

Be sure to get the fuel right by working the curve/slopes before doing any idle calibration.
Hope this helps, but please verify.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:00 pm

my table goes like: 0.380-3.2kg/h then underneath that .400-3.8kg/h. I don't understand what you mean by descending order, my table starts at .380 at the top and all the way down to 5.00v at the bottom.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 89FiveOh » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:18 pm

Sorry to have confused. Mine goes from the top at 5v down to 0v at the bottom. All I meant that whichever direction, your values should be in numeric order.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 89FiveOh » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:35 pm

Step 1 BE IN CLOSED LOOP
Step 2 Hold throttle steady at the first MAF voltage point you want to dial in and let the kam’s stabilize
The number you see is the amount of fuel the EEC adds to get the narrowbands to switch. By switching,
I mean how much fuel is added to go past stoich and back again in a continuous loop. Hence, CLOSED LOOP.
The hegos see lean then rich, then lean then rich and so forth and so on. The EEC remembers how much fuel is required to make them switch back andforth from rich to lean. Well, guess whats in the middle of all that switching, STOICH.

Step 3 Take this stabilized Kam reading and multiply your air at the voltage you are dialing in and wait a few seconds and your kams will be coming back to 1.

This should get you close.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:39 pm

Thank you. Ill going to try that, but im going to try to get the afr at idle to 14 before i let the car warm up. 10-11 afr is way too lean so im not running the engine for long.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 89FiveOh » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:56 pm

For what its worth, I understand that lean at the idle wont make it go kabloom. Just watch your KAMRF at idle and simply multiply your air by that number.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:23 pm

i typoed and typed lean. I meant rich. (which CAN make the engine go kabloom) lol sorry.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:34 pm

im looking at my fuel error histogram and the average across all rpms is between 1.1 - 1.17. Should i multiply that to my maf curve. Won't that increase the numbers in the maf curve which in turn make the computer dump more fuel making my car run even richer?
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby decipha » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:59 pm

running rich at idle will cause you to wash down the cylinders and kill the rings, better to be lean at idle, impossible to be too lean at idle it just shuts the engine off wont hurt anything rich is bad down low, once you get to half throttle that flips around where lean is bad and rich is better

engines cant go kaboom under half throttle due to a bad tune, anything less than half throttle failures are purely mechanical

rpm has no bearing on fuel at all and is absolutely useless, you need to look at the mafv error histogram, you have to hold that exact mafv long enough to get the hegos to switch and you can apply that error, if its running rich though its not in closed loop so any of those values populated are useless
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:33 pm

so would it be smart to keep scaling the maf flow down till the car starts running lean then start looking at the fuel error and start dialing?
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby decipha » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:07 pm

once its in closed loop the hego will correct it for you, but yea reduce the flow down low to help the hego control the fuel easier
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby SlowBox » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:56 pm

If it's rich at startup go into the startup fuel table and take some out at that ECT. Subtract .05 at a time until you reach 13 to 13.5. Shitty part is only having one chance a day to get it dialed in.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby SlowBox » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:09 pm

This is what works well for me. I also had great luck adjusting the injector timing table to fit my cam, but that's a little more advanced.

    0.203 0.203 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
    0.203 0.203 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
    0.203 0.203 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.000 0.000
    0.273 0.250 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.000 0.000
    0.328 0.258 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.000 0.000
    0.344 0.250 0.125 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.000
    0.492 0.352 0.203 0.148 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 0.102 1.242
    0.602 0.398 0.250 0.203 0.203 0.148 0.102 0.102 0.102 1.273
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:23 pm

i let the car fully warm up (180degreesF) and the afr still stayed the same. I discovered i have a slight intake leak, but im not sure an intake leak can make the car that rich. it should actually lean it out. im going to fix it tomorrow. i have a datalog of the car warming up to 180 degrees. should i post that, because i have no idea whats wrong. Also would like to add that, to start the car i have to do wot while cranking otherwise it doesn't want to start.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:19 am

i am currently in my car trying to tune it, but no matter what i change (injectors/maf slope) the afr stays the same like i didn't even do anything.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:59 am

update: im playing around with the injector voltage offset and its slowly getting my car to a good afr. its at .830 lambse right now on my afr gauge but the computer wants around 1
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby decipha » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:41 am

what injectors and maf do u have?

if u have to put it in flood clear mode to start u have too much cranking pw, go reduce it

if cutting the maf in half had no affect on the fuel then u have a mechanical issue either leaking or stuck injectors bad injector drivers or a leaking or faulty fuel pressure regulator
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:00 pm

i got the afr good but it doesn't match the lamdse the computer wants so i still have to adjust it. i had to divide the injector voltage offset by 2.5 to get it where i want it.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:06 pm

can i post my datalog so someone can check out if everything seems ok?
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby SlowBox » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:53 pm

Post your tune.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:39 pm

ok will do. i actually drove the car from my shop to my home. it did stall out a bunch of times at red lights but i made it. my afr was at 14 the entire time.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:40 pm

heres the tune. i divide the injector voltage offset by 2.5.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:43 pm

btw my specs are:stock block/heads, 80lbs dekas, hpx slot style maf with their 3inch housing. 70mm turbo.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby SlowBox » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:59 pm

Cranking PW looks good, but fn882 is jacked and fn367 is completely upside down. Put the injector offset and breakpoint back to posted values for the 80s since the time it takes to open them doesn't change with scaling. Hopefully the inverted offset function is the problem. Let us know.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:47 am

So the break point doesn’t get scaled?
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby SlowBox » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:58 am

It does. I misspoke. Sorry about that.
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GT-40 upper and lower
65mm TB
Decapped injectors
Single 70mm snail
U4P0/U4P2/CBAZA
TunerPro v5
Moates QH v1.6

Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:42 pm

If the problem is that the table is inverted, why does it get fixed when I change the voltage offset? Shouldn’t it be off regardless? That’s just my way of thinking and I could be 100% wrong.
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Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby SlowBox » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:53 pm

No idea. Corrupted functions and tables do all kinds of weird shit.
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9.7:1
GT-40 upper and lower
65mm TB
Decapped injectors
Single 70mm snail
U4P0/U4P2/CBAZA
TunerPro v5
Moates QH v1.6

Re: Car is super rich. reads 11afr

Unread postby 91foxgt » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:27 pm

i fixed the inverted function issue but it didn't fix it. hopefully the guys i bring my car too will start a fresh tune and fix it.
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