need help in a few areas

Vehicle specific forum for tuning the Foxbody Chassis Mustangs utilizing decipha's GUFX Strategy

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby decipha » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:34 am

no dashpot has no affect on fuel
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Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:26 am

I think the issue may have been that I brought down the values in fn882 but then didnt adjust fn800 accordingly. by not adjusting fn800 i was clipping the isc duty cycle to .8. i started over with the a9l2 dashpot settings and dialed it in again. I did reduce the top to 2.00 but this time i also reduced the top of fn800 so .98 duty cycle matches up with the top of fn882.

todays cold start seemed to be much improved it didnt seem to break up at all. want to get a few more in to be sure but hoping this was it cuz i dont know where else to turn if not.
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Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:37 am

so still dealing with the afr swings when cold. its close to being tolerable but something obviously still isnt just right and I dont want to give up until i find it!

from reading and following other threads i finally realized i was going rich on decel. I have messed with at least 50% of the transient parameters going in both directions with some to still not make much progress when cold. when up to temp the swings are very minimal on shifts but when cold afr drops into the .7 range on shift and creeps up to 1.1-1.2 coming out. the weird part is the lambses do not show this only the wideband does.

my BOV opens pretty easily so on shifts it dumps the air out of the intake track, could this somehow be contributing? I have it in the correct spot and fairly sure i have it adjusted properly but just wanted to throw it out there in case. could this be causing backflow at the MAF? I havent messed with that table at all.

would posting a log for the first few mins of run time be helpful at all?

I can post my bin file if anyone wants to see where i have all of my settings at?
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Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby canuck1 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:16 am

Hi Paul,

I've got the exact same issue going on (showing rich on decel, wideband only) and I am struggling to find a solution as well. Lowering offset has reduced it somewhat as it was dropping to .79 on my wideband and now it only drops to .88. Better, but I had hoped to be able to keep it closer to 1. I have too many variables in play to be much help to you but I have been able to identify a lag in time between what lambse commands and what the wideband shows. I wonder if this is a function of where the wideband is located and its slower response time compared to the narrow band sensor in the other collector? The most confusing part is there isn't any point where I can identify lambse or kamrf adding significant fuel to produce the briefly rich reading.

Which transient parameters have you played with and what kind of changes have you seen as a result?

Sean
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A9L ECM E9ZF-12A650-A2A with Moates F3 chip, Burn2, Quarterhorse, GUFX_200624.XDF, A9L2 calibration

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:45 am

Hey Sean,

I believe it was your thread that made me realize that. From searching I found other threads where Decipha mentions dropping to .9 or so isnt that rich and not of concern. If I didnt have this lean hesitation when cold I wouldnt even be worried about this. My WB and NB are very close to each other so I dont think location is the issue.

changing MEFTRD from .1 to 2 seems to have the biggest impact.
I have AEM set to .25 because I was getting a rich spike with a quick throttle stab.
I messed with FN1321(TSIEF) alot but currently have that back to A9L2 settings.
I have lowered FN1322 alot trying to add some fuel in coming out of shifts.
Transient fuel multiplier is currently at 1.5
and MTEISF is currently cut in half at .031, I first doubled this to .125 and the car really didnt like it.

I have honestly just been throwing darts hoping for something to stick. I found a thread where Decipha gave a pretty good description on dialing in accel and transients but it was for a different strategy so I dont know if it directly applies.
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Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby canuck1 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:06 am

Well, I guess I'm glad to learn I'm not the only guy chucking darts and hoping to land near the bullseye!

I'm still trying to keep my adjustments simple (low slope, offset and breakpoint) but I'm working with limited data on my injectors and I'm ending up with some rather odd slopes. I'm pretty sure I am going to swap to Siemens Deka 60 injectors to preserve my sanity but there's limited stock in the short (48mm) body style I need, so I guess I'll keep playing with what I have until I can get them.

I do wish there was a guideline for value changes (relative, one to the other) when it came to basic parameters like offset and low slope. I'm just not able to identify when I've lowered low slope too much or decreased offset too little.

EDIT: I got Siemens Deka 80lb/hr injectors coming from Chris at Power Adder Solutions!

Sean
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351w based 396 c.i. stroker. Mass-Flo-EFI style intake w Siemens Deka V 80lb/hr injectors, AFR 195CC Renegade heads, 10.4:1, Comp XE274HR, custom long tube headers and sidepipes. 5spd manual trans, 3.73:1 rear.
A9L ECM E9ZF-12A650-A2A with Moates F3 chip, Burn2, Quarterhorse, GUFX_200624.XDF, A9L2 calibration

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:00 am

PaulC-turbo5.0 wrote:so still dealing with the afr swings when cold. its close to being tolerable but something obviously still isnt just right and I dont want to give up until i find it!

from reading and following other threads i finally realized i was going rich on decel. I have messed with at least 50% of the transient parameters going in both directions with some to still not make much progress when cold. when up to temp the swings are very minimal on shifts but when cold afr drops into the .7 range on shift and creeps up to 1.1-1.2 coming out. the weird part is the lambses do not show this only the wideband does.

my BOV opens pretty easily so on shifts it dumps the air out of the intake track, could this somehow be contributing? I have it in the correct spot and fairly sure i have it adjusted properly but just wanted to throw it out there in case. could this be causing backflow at the MAF? I havent messed with that table at all.

would posting a log for the first few mins of run time be helpful at all?

I can post my bin file if anyone wants to see where i have all of my settings at?


any other suggestions for me from anyone? I have all my multipliers back to stock except for MEFTRD being at 2 and AEM set to .25. Once the engine is warm it seems perfect, stays right at stoich in and out of shifts and also on throttle lifts in gear. different story when i first start driving and i can not figure out any way to pull decel fuel and add accel fuel when the engine is cold. I just cut the entire accel enrichment table in half and kicked up tsief in the lower portion up to 150f and I dont think it even made a difference.
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Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:02 am

figure ill give this one more shot to see if i can get any further suggestions and maybe find a solution. currently have CL delayed to 120 secs which does help but its still not perfect and its bugging me that i cant figure it out.

I have tried changing every transient and accel fuel parameter with nothing helping. It finally dawned on me last week that the only real progress ive made with this issue was dashpot adjustments which i outlined earlier in the thread. so i am leaning towards it being something with airflow and not fuel but not sure if that makes sense considering im using mechanical idle and that simplifies airflow adjustments.

any replies will be appreciated. if i am somehow doing something wrong or not asking the right questions please let me know
PaulC-turbo5.0
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Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:01 am
Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:43 pm

is it just me or is this thread being ignored for some reason?!?
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Posts: 128
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Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby decipha » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:52 pm

I dont think its being ignored just requires a great deal of time not currently available
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD - Sharifa

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 am

ok thanks for the reply. I completely understand the grind of life with work and little ones in the picture. ill admit i was feeling a bit slighted not getting any response at all, and i do feel bad about that since your base tune and all your help thus far has my car tuned light years ahead of what i had from the "pro" that tuned it originally. its not my personality to stop unless everything is as close to perfect as possible, which can be a blessing and a curse.

if possible can you elaborate on what would be so time consuming about it? are you out of suggestions for me to keep trying to figure it out and saying you would need to dive in yourself and see whats going on?
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Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:01 am
Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby decipha » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:12 am

yea it would be best and about the only way I could advise you is to see exactly what its doing.

post your tune and a cold log where it acts up at
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD - Sharifa

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:18 pm

ok both attached, i switched the CL delays back so it went in sooner. I wish i was logging my WB for this hope thats not a problem but it swung just like i described a few posts back on shifts. It happens the first time around 50-55 seconds of run time. I slowed back down and went through a few shifts again and it did it there as well but didnt catch the time.

after the 10 min trip to the store came back out fired it up and pulled off with zero issue. wideband swings to maybe .85 at the lowest and comes right back to stoich.

appreciate the help!
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Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:55 am

ended up back in my first thread i posted on here when i got going with this and i had the same issue then. one suggestion made was if the lambses ramp rich on shift then it possible my maf curve below idle could be too low or injector adjustments. watching back the log i posted last week the lambses do ramp rich and considering i have known injectors i am wondering if it could be my maf curve below idle?

I have 4 maf points below my idle count that i havent adjusted much.

what is the purpose of having counts below where it idles at?

how do you go about dialing in those counts? or should i just increase them by trial and error? I have recently tried to lower my idle enough to get to lower counts but it wouldnt go below 150 counts.
PaulC-turbo5.0
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Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:01 am
Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:17 am

bumping this just in case its been forgotten about

i increased my maf counts below idle by 1.25 with still no change. how far out does fuel have to be to cause considerable issues? 5%, 10%, 15%?
PaulC-turbo5.0
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Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:01 am
Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:46 am

fuel can be as far out as it wants and you may never have an issue so long as the o2s can correct for it

some engines arent that tolerant though so its up to you as the tuner to decide

if the maf counts do not drop below the idle maf counts on decel then changing those bottom areas below idle wont change anything.
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD - Sharifa

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:55 pm

Any time to check out my tune and log yet?
PaulC-turbo5.0
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Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:01 am
Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

Re: need help in a few areas

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:30 am

its been cooler here in NY these past 2 mornings and it has made me notice this issue is more pronounced with the cooler temps. have CL delayed to help but its still there in open loop. also noticed its happening when the engine is loaded not only shifting related. rounded a corner slowly in second and coming out of it i applied more throttle to get going and the wideband read around 1.2 or so and had the hesitation. the next few shifts were the worst its been in a while with the WB reading 1.3 and a touch higher after a shift until it brought itself back and stabilized.

any and all suggestions of things to look at or try would be appreciated!
PaulC-turbo5.0
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Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:01 am
Name: Paul Casey
Vehicle Information: 1989 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0, GUFX/A9L2, TP RT, Moates Quarterhorse & Jaybird
Stock 302, stock cam, stock E7 heads, felpro 9333pt1 head gaskets and ARP studs, GT40 upper and lower-upper reversed
siemens deka 60's, stock lines, in tank 255lph pump
3" PMAS HPX slot
stock T5 with ram clutch, 3.55 gears
67mm On3 ceramic BB turbo, custom 2.5" stainless hotside built by me, custom 3" cold side through On3 intercooler, 10psi
custom 3" downpipe into 2.5" cat back with mac flowpath mufflers

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