IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Vehicle specific forum for tuning the Foxbody Chassis Mustangs utilizing decipha's GUFX Strategy

IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby black93gt » Fri May 10, 2019 1:38 pm

Hello,

1993 Mustang. Using the A9L2 bin I have set the IPSIBR to zero and cycled the car on and off letting it run and datalog for 5 minutes several times to ensure I read zero in IPSIBR. My problem is that when I drive the car the idle will occasionally act correctly and idle at the rpm requested/set and other times it will hunt and bounce from nearly stalling to 1800 rpm. While it does this the wideband afr jumps around significantly from lean to rich. I have noticed that when coming to a stop the IPSIBR will be around 2.0 and once stopped it will then slowly drop down to zero. The care needs to sit still for approximately 30 seconds sometimes more in order to drop back under .05 IPSIBR. Its during this time that the idle jumps around or it just flat out stalls. If it matters the throttle body is a trick flow 75 mm unit.

Any thoughts on why the IPSIBR seems to hang and slowly drop once the car has stopped moving and is at idle? Have I not done something correctly in the adjustment?

Thank you
Aaron
black93gt
General Poster
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 1:25 pm
Name: Aaron
Vehicle Information: 1993 Mustang GT
A3M/A9l2
Moates Quarterhorse
Vehicle 2 Information: 1988 Ford F150
converted to maf A9P
Moates Quarterhorse

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby stangman86gt » Fri May 10, 2019 3:17 pm

i'm not going to claim to be able to fix your problem(still learning myself), but in the meantime before decipha tells you whats wrong in half a second(hehe).

Do you have a copy of the tune and one of the logs? I'll look at it and see if i see anything glaringly obvious that might be able to get you fixed in.
stangman86gt
General Poster
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:33 pm
Name: mike
Vehicle Information: 1986 Mustang gt
quarterhorse a9l2 gufx using tunerpro rt

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby black93gt » Fri May 10, 2019 7:06 pm

BE crashed while i was logging and I dont have a good file of it stumbling at idle. I will log it again tomorrow when I have a chance and post the tune and log.

Aaron
black93gt
General Poster
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 1:25 pm
Name: Aaron
Vehicle Information: 1993 Mustang GT
A3M/A9l2
Moates Quarterhorse
Vehicle 2 Information: 1988 Ford F150
converted to maf A9P
Moates Quarterhorse

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby decipha » Fri May 10, 2019 8:36 pm

u cant use the a9l2 with BE there is no def file for it you have to use tunerpro
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 17320
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble Update now using tuner pro

Unread postby black93gt » Thu May 30, 2019 2:27 pm

I am now using TunerPro for A9L2. Couple of questions so far. I still have the stumble and bouncing idle that will eventually cause the car to stall. I have noticed that if I set IPSIBR under .05 and logged the car idling and then turn it off and come back the next day I am back above .05 and have to readjust it to get it back down under .05. The throttle body is a 75mm Trickflow/Summit piece....part of the problem?

Also now that I can see the error tables I want to make sure I am reading and using them correctly. I let the car warm up and idle for about 15 minutes and logged the car idling for two minutes. When I look at the fuel error table the reading is 1 and it never changes or fluctuates during the log. If I look at the AEM wide band error it fluctuates between .945 and .954. The car idles between 180 and 200 imav usually right around 196 imav. Do I need to adjust my maf curve or not based on these readings? The wide band would seem to indicate that I am rich as the lambses are calling for 1.0 and the wide band says .95. This is where my inexperience shows. I thought if the fuel error (not the wide band error) was 1 which is what it is asking for lambses then nothing should be changed? The car seems slightly rich at idle by smell.

As far as the bouncing idle stalling problem do I need to adjust the fn1861 isc multiplier to allow it more air?

Just as added information the timing at idle reflects a pretty consistent 13 degrees. I am using 30 lb motorsport injectors with all their correct data in the tune and I am using a pro m 30 lb meter with their supplied 30 point flowed maf curve.

Thank you for the help.
Aaron
black93gt
General Poster
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 1:25 pm
Name: Aaron
Vehicle Information: 1993 Mustang GT
A3M/A9l2
Moates Quarterhorse
Vehicle 2 Information: 1988 Ford F150
converted to maf A9P
Moates Quarterhorse

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby decipha » Thu May 30, 2019 4:03 pm

are u checking IPSIBR at a warm stable idle ? otherwise at startup and warm up ipsibr will climb if fn1862 the isc multiplier table is not dialed in

usually if u cant keep ipsibr stable at a warm stable idle either your throttle stop set screw is backing out, the blade isnt returning fully closed again / cable issues or even carpet, or otherwise the iac valve could be faulty.

of the fuel error is at 1 and doesnt budge then your probably in open loop u can verify by lambses jumping around tk make the hegos switch

from what u describe u need to reduce the ma flow at 200 maf counts by mutliplying by .94 to remove that 6%
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 17320
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby black93gt » Fri May 31, 2019 9:35 am

I warmed the car up this morning letting it idle for for 15 minutes. The car did not move during the warm up and the accelerator was not touched. After idling for 15 minutes I started the log, I logged for 2 minutes. My IPSIBR remained at 0 most of the time and at the highest it was less than .02. The car DID NOT stall or hunt for idle during this time.

The fuel error in this most recent log did fluctuate and I ended up with an average of 1.004 at 200. The AEM error average was 1.004 at 180 and .991 at 200.

The fuel at warm/hot idle in this current log appears to be on point..does that sound correct?

If the idle fuel is correct I will next need to drive the car at part throttle and hit the different data points to get a good log. My concern is this is when the hunting idle will happen and it stumbles and dies every time I come to a stop. Can I address the hunting idle at this point with the ISC duty cycle to try and get a good log with out it stalling? Does it need more air?

Thank you.
black93gt
General Poster
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 1:25 pm
Name: Aaron
Vehicle Information: 1993 Mustang GT
A3M/A9l2
Moates Quarterhorse
Vehicle 2 Information: 1988 Ford F150
converted to maf A9P
Moates Quarterhorse

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby decipha » Fri May 31, 2019 10:31 am

yep sounds like idle fuel is good

if ipsibr is near 0 then your idle is good too

stalling coming to a stop has nothing to do with idle thats dashpot

yes go kick up the dashpot minimum clip DASMIN

go double that scalar and it should stop it from stalling on decel.

you need to dial in dashpot , read over the dashpot write up for specifics
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 17320
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble---started over

Unread postby black93gt » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:15 pm

I started over. I loaded a fresh new a9l2 bin and entered all my engine, fuel, and maf parameters. I set my warm/hot mechanical idle and got my fuel at warm/hot idle with a percent or two of commanded lambses. Then went into the tune and changed the dashpot settings to recommended default settings.

I let the car sit for 20 minutes with the battery disconnected and then fired it back up. Let it idle for 15 to minutes untouched and once back up to operating temp my ipsibr was .00 (will fluctuate to as much as .008 occasionally) and my iscdty is .11 - .13. Took it out for a drive and I did not have the stalling problem like I was having before. Now when the clutch is pushed in the idle hangs around 1500 - 1700 rpm for quite a while and then eventually drops to the 975 idle requested. It takes quite a long time for the high idle to decline. During the time the idle is hung around 1500 the ipsibr is around .88 and the iscdty is .65. Both will drop to the idle value mentioned above (ipsibr 0 and iscdty .11 to .13) once the idle finally settles back down to the 975 rpm commanded idle.


1) How do I get the idle to not hang for so long at the 1500 rpm level when the clutch is pushed in (DASMIN and DASMPH...do i raise or lower the scalar?)
2) I run a huge electric fan (texas heat) what do I need to account for with the current draw from the fan?
3) The car bucks terribly at light throttle in 1st thru 3rd gear. What do I need to begin adjusting to account for that?
4) I have noticed that the idle while in the 975 range does jump around quite a bit. The spark is steady between 12.5 and 14 degrees at idle. The wideband does fluctuate from .98 to 1.03 constantly. The cam is a trick flow stage 1. Pretty basic small cam. The constant idle rpm changes give it a rough feeling idle which would be great if it was a big lumpy cam but its not. Any suggestion on what I should look at to calm the idle rpm down?

I think I am much closer to a usable car at this point. Thank you for the help.
black93gt
General Poster
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 1:25 pm
Name: Aaron
Vehicle Information: 1993 Mustang GT
A3M/A9l2
Moates Quarterhorse
Vehicle 2 Information: 1988 Ford F150
converted to maf A9P
Moates Quarterhorse

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby decipha » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:16 pm

1- if dashpot is at the dasmin clip when its hanging then you need to reduce dasmin
2- nothing
3 - you need more dashpot, kick up the dashpot max clip function fn882 at those lower rpms
4 - no, theres no reason why it shouldn't idle stable at 800 or even less

from everything you've posted it sounds like your idle air control valve is bad

you should be able to run with unlatered a9l2 dashpot settings with no problems
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 17320
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby black93gt » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:41 pm

I would love for the car to idle lower and I can make it idle lower thru the set screw, however my ipsibr is well above .05 if I set it that low. If it idles at 850 the ipsibr is a steady .6 or higher. I have to set the idle around 950 - 975 to get ipsibr to be zero. Is there something in the mechanical idle reset I am missing? I have read and followed the directions several times now and always end up the 950-975 idle to get ipsibr to 0.
black93gt
General Poster
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 1:25 pm
Name: Aaron
Vehicle Information: 1993 Mustang GT
A3M/A9l2
Moates Quarterhorse
Vehicle 2 Information: 1988 Ford F150
converted to maf A9P
Moates Quarterhorse

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby decipha » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:59 pm

the only way that would be possible is if the iac valve isnt functioning properly
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 17320
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby black93gt » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:18 pm

After continuing to mess with the trick flow 75 mm throttle body and IAC, I was still not able to get the car to idle under 1000 rpm and get ipsibr under .05. The car also continued to die when the clutch was pushed in even after adjusting dasmin. I did check the IAC with an ohm meter and it passed per the specified parameters. I also realized I has a spare IAC lying around and put it on the 75 mm throttle body, but unfortunately it did not change or improve anything.

I decided to pull the 75 mm trick flow throttle body off and put an old 65 mm motorsport throttle body that I had lying around. I reused the original IAC from the 75 mm and went thru the reset process again. Immediately the car idled better and I was able to get the car to idle at 875 rpm with the ipsibr at a steady .00. Took the car out for a drive using the suggested base dashpot settings and drove it for 20 minutes in mixed condition driving. My afr is slightly off moving from the 75 to the 65 but it drove well and stalled only twice. Both times it stalled it almost caught itself and rebounded, but ultimately stumbled and died. I drove it again a couple days later with no changes and again it was a 20 - 30 minute drive of mixed condition driving and it did not stall once.

Seems that the 75 mm throttle body may be the root cause of the problems. For now I will leave the 65 on and see If I can get it dialed in on the 65 and then get another 75 at a later time. Couple followup questions now that it seems I am moving int he right direction.

1) idle still hangs a bit more than I like so how much of a reduction in dasmin would be a good starting point?
2) the car still bucks terribly at light throttle in 1st thru 3rd gear when cold , but once warmed up it is less noticeable. Is the bucking worse when cold a fuel issue because my cold start/idle is not dialed in yet?
3) once warm the bucking is less noticeable but still present, so how much of an increase in fn882 would be a good starting point?

Sorry for the length of time between reports/questions. Only have a limited amount of time each week to mess with the car.
Thank you
black93gt
General Poster
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 1:25 pm
Name: Aaron
Vehicle Information: 1993 Mustang GT
A3M/A9l2
Moates Quarterhorse
Vehicle 2 Information: 1988 Ford F150
converted to maf A9P
Moates Quarterhorse

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby decipha » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:47 pm

1> you need to see what dashpot is at and adjust it as you need, if its stalling though dasmin needs to be increased

2> if fuel is good then it needs more dashpot but you cant dial it in or now for certain til you get the base idle correct

first thing you need to do is get the base idle correct, load all the latest a9l2 idle air values. get to a warm stable idle and set the throttle stop correctly post a log of it so we can verify
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 17320
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: IPSIBR a9l2 trouble

Unread postby black93gt » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:49 pm

I attached the current bin and idle log.....I think. The log is about 2 minutes long. The car had been idling untouched for about 15 minutes when I did the log. The log starts off with the electric fan off and ipsibr is at 0. The fan kicks on ipsibr climbs well over .05 and then at the end the fan shuts off and ipsibr drops back to 0.

The idle quality is terrible for a stage 1 trick flow cam and the throttle body whistles like a train horn at the 875 to 900 rpm.

I am unclear from reading other posts on the forum if there is anything that need to be take into account in the tune for the 1 5/8 long tube header? Seems like some answers are no and others say at idle it need to be in open loop?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
black93gt
General Poster
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 1:25 pm
Name: Aaron
Vehicle Information: 1993 Mustang GT
A3M/A9l2
Moates Quarterhorse
Vehicle 2 Information: 1988 Ford F150
converted to maf A9P
Moates Quarterhorse


Return to Foxbody Tuning (GUFX)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests