Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Wed May 10, 2017 5:32 am

For information, I have a workaround to disassemble my 2 banks binaries. http://forum.efidynotuning.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1260
This was really necessary, because, when using my EEC V test bed with OBD tools, I have just realized that calibration name was directly available.
And because, all EEC V calibrations are available through direct download, just with their name, it is really necessary to be able to disassemble them quickly.
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Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
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Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Mon May 15, 2017 2:39 am

Some new files from Mondeo and Cougar V6.
My Mondeo has been identified (through OBD, still not unmounted) as using an EEC V MLP-427 with ATAFHE3 Calibration (REED).
My Cougar (not at home for now) should use an EEC V MLF-4G7 with KHAI8AU (USES), the same than the Mondeo ST24.
To be clear, it is quite simple to understand which Calibrations were provided for cars using EEC IV, but for EEC V, it is really more complicated.
Mondeo V6 MK2 (1996-2000) has more than 10 different calibrations on 3 different hardware. Ok, an engine update was done in 1998 (different injectors, lower engine displacement), but it looks more like based on options of the vehicle.
So for example, for ATAFH(E) strategy, I have 3 versions, mine ATAFHE3 (REED), ATAFHE4 (?) and ATAFHE5 (TICK), with 3 real different Ford part numbers.
These calibrations are really near, with small changes, but I can not link them to vehicle specifications.
When I compare them with KHAI8(A) strategy, I can find many common parts, but yes it was really updated (because of hardware only ?). Loom and Pin out should be the same.
We should find the same thing on US market, with Contour and Mercury Cougar, so probably more information ?
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Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:46 pm

After some time, waiting for the Cougar, restoring the XR2i, working on the others and other things related with the season, I continue to work on this subject, just before holidays.
I have identified Cougar management, it is using a KHAICEY strategy, far away from what I was thinking. Catch code should be EMW0, but it is a 2003 Ford upgrade for this 99 car.
It seems that original catch code was UBBA with the hardware I ha expected, but another time, no way to understand why so many references were available for the same car, with probably the same options.
I will provide you the related files coming from the IDS.

For EECIV, it take me months to understand that the first number of the catch code was the year, this is now said.
Now I start testing my created binaries, step by step, because I have still not understood 100% of the related strategies.
To do it I use compatible ECU instead of the original one, to protect the one that is working since many years.
But a question, hardware code is the same, some chips have not the same trademark, but the thing that disturbs me, is the quartz.
In one I have got an E4VF-AA NDK8949 and in other one I have got an E4VF-AA NDK9009. Are they both 15mhz quartz ? Why have we this difference ?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:01 pm

Look at the number on the top of the silver can near the processor. It is the oscillator with frequency written on it. Part number could just be different for Intel Vs Motorola processor, but both functionally the same.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:54 am

Yes, for me this is the oscillator, but no frequency on it, only different numbers (probably year and week, but always ending with 9 ?). A sample is in attachment.
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Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:14 am

I see what you mean now. Any markings on the end opposite the wire leads?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:07 am

jsa wrote:I see what you mean now. Any markings on the end opposite the wire leads?

Nothing more written on them, but I have opened 2 more VM120 ECU. This should really be the year and the week, I have 9005 (1990 week 5) and 9001.
I can not imagine 4 different frequencies on the same hardware.
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Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:46 am

no worries,

if the hardware code is the same that means all the internals are the same/interchangeable as well
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:56 pm

Yes, it is working fine, for now I see no difference, the engine is working as expected with it.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:34 am

Now I am trying to correct fuel quantity on this management, because I am using injectors 35% bigger than original ones.
To do it I am updating the fuel ECT table (Load-MAP vs ECT) and the fuel RPM table (Load-MAP vs RPM). This should be enough for my expectations.
Sorry for these names, as I have already said it was a strange management.
But this fuel calculation is always based on a table (that I have always linked with injectors), even for startup,
but for which I have difficulties to give a name or a meaning and it is related to its numbers.
I do not understand why they are high at 1700, 2800, 4500 rpm and low between.
This table could be very interesting to update.

I attach a screen copy of it. Have you ever seen such a table ?

For information, its fuel load parameter is a result of itself mixed with MAP, ECT, ACT and other things. Cells are divided by 2.
Do not forget it is an old management, without Landa sensor and adaptive learning and without MAF sensor.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:20 am

The lo slope and hi slope scalars should be changed to the new injector specs.

Got to wonder about how Interpolation is done ?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:24 pm

Yes, it would be the best way to process, if I was not based on stage 1 version and if I had found injectors slopes.
But stage 1 has not updated injectors slopes, mainly the fuel ECT table (Load-MAP vs ECT) and it is working fine like this, since more than 20 years.
Not the best way to do it but it works.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:54 pm

All the transients will be off until the slopes are done.

Are you able to log anything out of the eec yet?

What does the MAP transfer look like?
How about the other related functions and tables?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:55 pm

jsa wrote:All the transients will be off until the slopes are done.

Yes if it is managed in this way, but I do not think so.

I have not ordered the quarterhorse for now, I try to obtain results without it first.

You will find attached all tables involved in fuel calculation and the MAP transfer. Two more tables exist but are deactivated in calibration.
Other functions involved are, like tables, justs multipliers around 100%. Anything else is calculation.

The table that I have called fuel flow correction, is the base of the calculation, even for the startup.

Yes, really difficult to compare with a zetec management.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:07 pm

First off, do not base your approach on what they do in chips. It is likely the chip hackers do not understand why the changes they made worked in some way, It is probable you understand better.

What you have called Fuel Flow Correction- Load VS RPM does not make sense to be so aggressively changing fuel for many of the load-rpm intersects.
Is the fuel pressure regulator referenced to manifold pressure?
Load axis up to 100%, is that perload, is there a table that gives MAP VS RPM with Load output to 200%?

The MAP transfer is showing negative numbers, is that a result of the formula you are using or is the underlying data signed?
Should you keep MAP units consistent throughout, Hg" for example.
In the absence of Hi & Lo slopes, there is some scope for trimming the injector characteristics by changing lines 2 through 10 of MAP transfer.

The table you call Fuel Standard Multiplier Fuel Quantity - Fuel Load vs RPM, appears to be MAP Hg" VS RPM.

In MAP VS RPM and ECT, MAP rows go to 0.83 why not 1.133 like MAP Transfer?

If you can get logging up and running, it would allow you to bench test input changes, see the RAM values change and back track to the code that references that RAM location. You can attack the problem from both directions.
Cheers
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby sailorbob » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:32 am

The 0SALTXA/C strategies use a single injector slope (A0).

What you are calling the 'Fuel Flow Correction' is probably the VE table and you need to check your conversion as I've only seen Ford use 0-100% for the values.

The MAP transfer table defines the pressure very simply, it only has two output values of 0.88 psi (input 0.000 v) and 30.94 psi (input 4.865 v and 10.240 v).
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:33 am

It is a bit easier for me to start on these chips, especially because of the security cut which is removed, but yes my last goal will be to rework it based on original management.
Screenshots are coming from the original management.
Yes "Fuel Flow Correction- Load VS RPM" stays still strange to me. No electric connection exists for fuel pressure regulator and it is fully linked to MAP.
The related Load axis takes in its calculation this table itself plus MAP, RPM, ECT, ACT. 100% is my adaptation for its scaler.

No negative value for MAP transfer originally, I just prefer to see vacuum and boost everywhere.

Table "Fuel Standard Multiplier Fuel Quantity - Fuel Load vs RPM" is using the whole result of the "Fuel Flow Correction- Load VS RPM" table, including MAP multiplication.
Its scaler has not enough rows, but the interest of this table seems really light for me.

Yes MAP table scaler is not using the highest values of the MAP sensor. Nothing is managed in tables over 0.83 bar of boost pressure, but results are always multiplied with MAP.
Originally, car run boost at 0.5 bar, with the security cut at 0.8 bar, so it seems logical to me, to be more accurate and to prevent having more rows in tables.

For now I have prepared 2 more binaries to be tested, one to run less rich at maximum boost pressure and another one, to manage the use of a 2.5 bar MAP sensor in replacement of the 2.0 one.
But yes, I will need logging, to identify other parameters and validate the ones I am not sure about.
I still need to identify ICV management to understand it, Boost valve management to modify it and other things.
The best way to to it, it to monitor error management in EEC, when elements are plugged / unplugged.

And I still need to understand, why many things were deactivated in calibration (same thing on 0FAC, 1AFA, 1ADA which use the same core).
Have they put this type of management in other cars (not for me), do they have planned to do it and make it evolve (for sure),
but they were probably stopped by the ecological rules in 1993.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:57 am

sailorbob wrote:The 0SALTXA/C strategies use a single injector slope (A0).

This should correspond to my 'Injector Flow Rate' scalar, multiplied by this 'Fuel Flow Correction'/'VE' table result or not if you are telling that its value is A0.

sailorbob wrote:What you are calling the 'Fuel Flow Correction' is probably the VE table and you need to check your conversion as I've only seen Ford use 0-100% for the values.

Conversion is currently a division by 2, by 4 it should match, but what a strange VE table. I known that CVH engine has not the best efficiency, but holes like this for certain RPM, I have never seen this on other VE tables.
Nothing it added to its result, before or after, it is just multiplied.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby decipha » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:49 am

the VE table on some strats does have a multiplier scalar
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby sailorbob » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:54 pm

'A0' is the Ford PID name for the 'Injector Slope'.

Whilst the table does not look like a typical VE table you can see the 'VE Multiplier for ACT' (aka FN305) and 'VE Multiplier for ECT' (aka FN326) multipliers before its lookup and the 'Engine Displacement' (aka BASEMD) and 'Airmass Flow Multiplier' (aka KVEFF) multipliers after it in the code.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:42 pm

sailorbob wrote:'A0' is the Ford PID name for the 'Injector Slope'.

Whilst the table does not look like a typical VE table you can see the 'VE Multiplier for ACT' (aka FN305) and 'VE Multiplier for ECT' (aka FN326) multipliers before its lookup and the 'Engine Displacement' (aka BASEMD) and 'Airmass Flow Multiplier' (aka KVEFF) multipliers after it in the code.


'Airmass Flow Multiplier' (aka KVEFF)' can not be something like 8000 ? For me all rounded scalars like 8000, 4000, 1000, ..., 80, 40, 20, ... were used for conversion or related calculations.
I have always though that this references (aka FN305, aka BASEMD, aka KVEFF) were related with Binary Editor.
Are you using some kind of Ford reference like for the 'A0' ? Is it available somewhere ?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby decipha » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:40 pm

those are the actual ford PID names

theres some strat docs floating around
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:39 am

I have not found documents on this subject for now, I will try to match with available definitions.

Another thing, I have starting working on ATAFHE(3) strategy (97), it should not be an Euro specific strategy, but not sure about this.
This one is for the ford 2.5 6 cylinders available on Ford Mystique, Contour, Mondeo, Mercury Cougar and so on. It should be near AKAM(?) strategy.
I have a question on the subroutines arguments, especially for functions.
SAD disassembly gives an argument encoding E 4 and find properly function addresses.
It seems to work like argument encoding E 2, so I am able to recalculate function addresses,
but I have not found how the second parameter was calculated and same thing for SAD.
For example :
9 2bd1: ef,49,fb call 271d UUWordLU(Func78,176);
9 2bd4: 7e,cf,76,01 #args
9 2bdd: ef,3d,fb call 271d UUWordLU(Func79,1314);
9 2be0: 62,cf,14,13 #args

I can not identify register addresses for 176 (RPM) or 1314 (Load).

Other information.

rbase f0 2060
rbase f2 2348
rbase f4 25c8
rbase f6 36de
rbase f8 3ee4
rbase fa 4824
rbase fc 4f56
rbase fe 63f4

Rd2 = 280;
Rd4 = 380;
Rd6 = 680;
Rd8 = 880;
Rda = 980;
Rdc = a80;
Rde = 1080;
Re0 = 1180;
Re2 = 1280;
Re4 = 1380;
Re6 = 1480;
Re8 = 1580;
Rea = 1680;
Rec = 1780;

Any idea on this encoding ?
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby decipha » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:24 am

u have to go to that 271d routine and see how its using those arguments
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:13 pm

Pym wrote:I have not found documents on this subject for now,


https://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 60#p118899
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am

Thank you, this Electronic Fuel Injection Strategy Book was the one I was searching for and google has not been my friend in this case.

To come back to this E 4 encoding, it seems that only the function address is encoded, not the value provided. This value is used directly used for comparison.
But this value is not properly translated in disassembly, I have to transform the register address to match something usable.
For example [176] <=> Rd0 (a discrete FF value) + [176] <=> R77 (not so easy to understand), [1314] <=> [Re2+94].
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby decipha » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:57 am

make aure u have in your dir file

rbase e2 1280

make sure u put all the rbase addresses at the very top of the dir file so it is done first
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:24 am

I have tried it and the result is the same. They are not exactly Rbase, but the issue is coming from the fact, that these shortcuts (I will call them like this) use signed bytes in addition.
Re2 = 1280; Re4 = 1380;
I was wrong [1314] is not [Re2+94], but [Re4+94] = [Re4-6c]. This is probably the reason, why Sad is not able to match them and why I was not able to do it at the beginning.
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Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:20 am

Pym,

Rather than pollute the SAD bug thread, I'll continue discussion here.

Your KBAN7H4 at 224kb exceeds Ford's binary at 216kb.

Attached is Ford's and two later in the series.
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John
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EEC-IV GHAJ0 ANTI or COSY

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby jsa » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:00 am

Code: Select all
  Sub714:
0 8843: f2                pushp                push(PSW);
0 8844: b0,58,46          ldb   R46,R58        R46 = R58;
0 8847: 37,46,1e          jnb   B7,R46,8868    if (!B7_R46) goto 8868;
0 884a: 45,6e,00,f4,34    ad3w  R34,Rf4,6e     R34 = 27a8;
0 884f: a1,75,0a,36       ldw   R36,a75        R36 = a75;
0 8853: b1,2d,46          ldb   R46,2d         R46 = 2d;
0 8856: b2,35,38          ldb   R38,[R34++]    R38 = [R34++];
0 8859: c6,37,38          stb   R38,[R36++]    [R36++] = R38;
0 885c: 15,46             decb  R46            R46--;
0 885e: d7,f6             jne   8856           if (0 != R46) goto 8856;
0 8860: c7,e8,14,00       stb   0,[Re8+14]     [Re8+14] = 0;
0 8864: c7,e8,15,00       stb   0,[Re8+15]     [Re8+15] = 0;
0 8868: b0,83,24          ldb   R24,R83        R24 = R83;
0 886b: 39,24,30          jb    B1,R24,889e    if (B1_R24) goto 889e;
0 886e: 9b,ff,a4,02,00    cmpb  0,[Rfe+2a4]   
0 8873: df,29             je    889e           if (0 == [8c0e]) goto 889e;
0 8875: a1,3c,23,36       ldw   R36,233c       R36 = 233c;
0 8879: a0,97,38          ldw   R38,R97        R38 = R97;
0 887c: 10,08             rbnk  8             
0 887e: ef,2d,a0          call  28ae           Sub376();


Code: Select all
  Sub376:
8 28ae: f2                pushp                push(PSW);
8 28af: 8b,36,04,38       cmpw  R38,[R36+4]   
8 28b3: db,06             jc    28bb           if ((uns) R38 < [R36+4])  {
8 28b5: 65,04,00,36       ad2w  R36,4          R36 += 4;
8 28b9: 27,f4             sjmp  28af           goto 28af; }

8 28bb: 71,df,6d          an2b  R6d,df         R6d &= df;
8 28be: a2,37,3a          ldw   R3a,[R36++]    R3a = [R36++];
8 28c1: a2,37,3c          ldw   R3c,[R36++]    R3c = [R36++];
8 28c4: 6a,36,3a          sb2w  R3a,[R36]      R3a -= [R36];
8 28c7: 6a,37,38          sb2w  R38,[R36++]    R38 -= [R36++];
8 28ca: 6a,36,3c          sb2w  R3c,[R36]      R3c -= [R36];
8 28cd: d6,05             jge   28d4           if (R3c < [R36])  {
8 28cf: 91,20,6d          orb   R6d,20         R6d |= 20;
8 28d2: 03,3c             negw  R3c            R3c = -R3c; }
8 28d4: 6c,38,3c          ml2w  R3c,R38        R3cL *= R38;
8 28d7: 8c,3a,3c          divw  R3c,R3a        R3c = R3cL / R3a;
8 28da: 35,6d,02          jnb   B5,R6d,28df    if (B5_R6d)  {
8 28dd: 03,3c             negw  R3c            R3c = -R3c; }
8 28df: 66,36,3c          ad2w  R3c,[R36]      R3c += [R36];
8 28e2: 71,df,6d          an2b  R6d,df         R6d &= df;
8 28e5: 71,ef,6d          an2b  R6d,ef         R6d &= ef;
8 28e8: f3                popp                 pop(PSW);
8 28e9: f0                ret                  return;
Cheers
John
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EEC-IV GHAJ0 ANTI or COSY

Re: Ford EU EEC IV&V specificities

Unread postby Pym » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:46 pm

Yes, my KBAN7H4 version is the 216kb Ford version extended to 224kb + 2 banks swapped to be recognized by SAD.
TSAD seems to give the same result.
Subroutines at 273e, 277c, 27ba, 27f8 are XXByteLU subroutines, 2836, 2872, 28ae, 28ea are XXWordLU subroutines, but are not recognized like this.
Subroutine at 2926 is well recognized as UUByteLU and UUWordLU for 2972. Everything on bank 8.
Difference between these subroutines is near nothing, but seems to generate the issue and no directive can force recognition and functions identification.

I have no interest on this strategy, except using its ignition map and its manifold volume on my ATAFHE3.
It is easier when main part of the functions are identified, because ignition is processed a bit differently, based on calculation or based on its returnless fuel system, I do not know for now.
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Vehicle Information: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta RS Turbo / EEC IV VM120 0FAB
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Vehicle 2 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Puma 1.7 VCT / EEC V LP2-110 MUFF AXPDCB4
Vehicle 3 Information: Ford(EU) 97 Mondeo V / EEC V MLP-427 REED ATAFHE3
Additional Vehicles: Ford(EU) 91 Fiesta XR2i / EEC IV SD111 1AFA
Ford(EU) 98 Cougar V6 / EEC V ?

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