Ultra rich as engine decels

Covers all sn94/95 mustang v8 ecu's.
dleach1407
Posts: 468
Joined: 2021 Mar 21, 15:17
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle Information: 95 Mustang GT, CBAZA Quarterhorse
331, 190 11R heads, Edelbrock Victor 50 manifold, F303, T5, 76mm Turbo, 91 octane, Returnless dual pump 03 cobra tank, Behind bars rails, 80# siemens injectors
wbo2_030MtxL

57 F100, RZASA, 04 Crown Vic ecu and harness, 302, GT40 heads, 4r70w, 80# deka5 shorties, Holley carb style throttle body, Speedmaster high rise intake manifold

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by dleach1407 »

i wonder how long I will have to keep bumping this thread until i get an answer?
decipha
Posts: 4952
Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
Location: Metairie, LA
Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by decipha »

No ones ignoring you. A lot going on right now and premium member side gets prirority taking up the little free time I get lately.

In any case, a transient fuel write up is on my to do list when time permits and has been for a while now.

transient fuel varies by era of ecu

on cbaza specifically theres two methods you can go

what i call the "dynamic" method my modeling the fuel puddle using fuel mass and slope.

Or the more simplistic but less accurate method of nulling mass and slope and just using a feed forward "static" method using just the transient table only.

svt on the za0 and j4j1 went that method. you can do a quick compare to see.

Before dialing in transients make sure fn1036 the inferred load table is dialed in. I have tunerpro populating the totldst error correction histogram. The logged values in the histogram are the fn1036 correction multiplier. (LOAD / TOTLDST)
Simply dial in inferred load using the histogram for your corrections.
Make sure the top of the table (highest load) is the highest value in that column as pct_load is that tables value divided by the top most value. A value higher on a lower load will force an ecu reset.

First part of transient fuel is getting manifold volume dialed in. You adjust it to get tip in fuel as consistent as possible. Make sure you let the engine come back to stable idle for at least 30 seconds after changing it so the new transient fuel calculation reaches equilibirum.

first you can take out the enrichment part by delaying open loop or forcing closed loop at wot.

Stab the throttle and try to get the fuel to stay as close to 1 lambda as possible. You can watch the hegos stay lean when you stab it if manifold volume is too high and you can see them stay rich if the manifold volume is too low.

Keep in mind manifold volume also largely affects the fuel removal rate on decel as well. more on that later. And to make manifold volume variable for different temps you have the ve correction table iirc FN1052 off the top of my head.

You have to swing it around and find the sweet spot.

Next is the actual transient fuel table. FN1321 is the primary transient fuel table. In order to dial it in you have to do stabilized load jumps. You do that by holding the throttle at a stable load and stabbing it quickly to another load and adjusting the value at the new load by the fuel error percentage. So if it dips rich 10% then remove that 10% at the new load.

Next you the time constants. If it stays consistent then leans out that means the accel time is too short. If it it stays consistent then richens up that means its too long.

This all goes without saying all of base fuel needs to be dialed in first.

And also fn1321 the tseif table is a scaling percentage table which i dont have calculating in the current xdf on the public downloads.

At a wedding so will reply back more detail when time permits.
dleach1407
Posts: 468
Joined: 2021 Mar 21, 15:17
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle Information: 95 Mustang GT, CBAZA Quarterhorse
331, 190 11R heads, Edelbrock Victor 50 manifold, F303, T5, 76mm Turbo, 91 octane, Returnless dual pump 03 cobra tank, Behind bars rails, 80# siemens injectors
wbo2_030MtxL

57 F100, RZASA, 04 Crown Vic ecu and harness, 302, GT40 heads, 4r70w, 80# deka5 shorties, Holley carb style throttle body, Speedmaster high rise intake manifold

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by dleach1407 »

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know youre busy and I am sorry to keep pestering you Ive just been fighting this 1 issue for the last 2-3 years.. Last year we determined it was transients I asked for this same info bumped the thread a few times and never got a response so I of course assumed you were ignoring me. Just an FYI, I am going to be a paid member soon. I want to get the better RZASA base tune that is only available to paying members. I dont even want you to tune it.
dleach1407
Posts: 468
Joined: 2021 Mar 21, 15:17
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle Information: 95 Mustang GT, CBAZA Quarterhorse
331, 190 11R heads, Edelbrock Victor 50 manifold, F303, T5, 76mm Turbo, 91 octane, Returnless dual pump 03 cobra tank, Behind bars rails, 80# siemens injectors
wbo2_030MtxL

57 F100, RZASA, 04 Crown Vic ecu and harness, 302, GT40 heads, 4r70w, 80# deka5 shorties, Holley carb style throttle body, Speedmaster high rise intake manifold

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by dleach1407 »

After reading over what you posted, I think the cobra transient fuel settings would probably be sufficient. Ill look through that and see if I can figure out what you are referring to. I will get my maf and that other table dialed in this weekend and see if I can get the manifold volume dialed in. I assume the manifold volume is going to take some work with all of the changes compared to stock.
dleach1407
Posts: 468
Joined: 2021 Mar 21, 15:17
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle Information: 95 Mustang GT, CBAZA Quarterhorse
331, 190 11R heads, Edelbrock Victor 50 manifold, F303, T5, 76mm Turbo, 91 octane, Returnless dual pump 03 cobra tank, Behind bars rails, 80# siemens injectors
wbo2_030MtxL

57 F100, RZASA, 04 Crown Vic ecu and harness, 302, GT40 heads, 4r70w, 80# deka5 shorties, Holley carb style throttle body, Speedmaster high rise intake manifold

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by dleach1407 »

I found the zero'd out table you were talking about. I went through all of the settings listed under fuel>transient in both the common use/tuning PIDs and the ones that are not in the tuning section but listed above and copied everything over. I should have the maf and FN1036 dialed back in tomorrow but I am going to do that with the old tune then copy it over to the new tune. Im sure there is more to just copying over those settings before i can try dialing it in. Does TSEIF table need to be reneabled?
decipha
Posts: 4952
Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
Location: Metairie, LA
Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by decipha »

not sure what you mean as the the transient fuel table cannot be disabled
dleach1407
Posts: 468
Joined: 2021 Mar 21, 15:17
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle Information: 95 Mustang GT, CBAZA Quarterhorse
331, 190 11R heads, Edelbrock Victor 50 manifold, F303, T5, 76mm Turbo, 91 octane, Returnless dual pump 03 cobra tank, Behind bars rails, 80# siemens injectors
wbo2_030MtxL

57 F100, RZASA, 04 Crown Vic ecu and harness, 302, GT40 heads, 4r70w, 80# deka5 shorties, Holley carb style throttle body, Speedmaster high rise intake manifold

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by dleach1407 »

decipha wrote: 2022 Apr 16, 16:38 And also fn1321 the tseif table is a scaling percentage table which i dont have calculating in the current xdf on the public downloads.
Maybe I am misunderstanding this part of your reply.
decipha
Posts: 4952
Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
Location: Metairie, LA
Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by decipha »

that means the values are multiplied by your scaling percentage
dleach1407
Posts: 468
Joined: 2021 Mar 21, 15:17
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle Information: 95 Mustang GT, CBAZA Quarterhorse
331, 190 11R heads, Edelbrock Victor 50 manifold, F303, T5, 76mm Turbo, 91 octane, Returnless dual pump 03 cobra tank, Behind bars rails, 80# siemens injectors
wbo2_030MtxL

57 F100, RZASA, 04 Crown Vic ecu and harness, 302, GT40 heads, 4r70w, 80# deka5 shorties, Holley carb style throttle body, Speedmaster high rise intake manifold

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by dleach1407 »

but you said its not calculating in the current public tune. I dont understand what you mean by that
decipha
Posts: 4952
Joined: 2021 Feb 15, 12:23
Location: Metairie, LA
Vehicle Information: Work Truck
'19 F-150 3.3L

Re: Ultra rich as engine decels

Unread post by decipha »

SP** parameters are scaling percentage values

its in the fuel write up
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