TWM/Borla EFI look-a-like Weber Carb

[olddog]

I see more and more of these Weber looking EFI systems and 8 stack EFI systems at the London Ohio Cobra car show every year. On Club Cobra people talk more about these systems. They are spending big bucks $8K plus to buy these, and spending tons more to get them tuned. Some give up.

Some have connected a vacuum tube to each port and they managed to get a MAP strategy to work. Others have used Alpha-N to get them running. Bottom line is that when each cylinder has its own individual intake runner with no common plenum, you almost need 8 one cylinder EFI systems to run it. Does the DEC solve these issues? Is it the solution. These guys are ending up with more the $10k in a EFI system, mostly for bragging rights and awe factor, but they are addicted to ridiculous power in 2500 lb cars, too.

I'm a fan of MAF, but with short distance to the port and reversion flow the meter would get fuel on it with big cams. I know MAP can be made to run just as well, but with the cam levels these guys are running, I'm not so sure.

Anyway I thought I would ask because if the DEC is the solution for these guys, I see a win win possibility for them and you.

Here is a link to one such thread that has some pictures and talk on the subject.

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/fuel-in ... treet.html

[decipha]

I read the first 2 1/2 pages they didnt really get in to the nitty gritty

the dec can theoretically run these engines most likely far better than anything else, the dec calculates aircharge per cylinder and has both aircharge and fuel compensation KAM tables it learns per individual cylinder feedback, it also runs in speed density, maf, and alpha-n, the dec calculates which is most accurate for any given situation and uses that mode until another becomes more accurate

I actually gave the stack setup a lot of thought when i wrote the dec but until i actually run one and test it out i cant say for sure

I hadnt assembled a dec since i changed processors, i will be assembling a few once i get the scp array figured out on the fords so i can reuse the stock gauge clusters

[olddog]

The Cobra Crowd are mostly Carb guys. Of the EFI guys, many have it tuned by a friend or pay someone else. Even those who seem to do it themselves, they tend to say things that make me wonder just how much they know. However since I'm just learning there is a ton that I do not know. So yes, they do not get into the details.

In perhaps another thread, one of the guys did talk about the throttle plate on an 8 stack was so close to the injector that at different different angles it affects mixing. The claim that his tuner had to do something to compensate for the lack of mixing didn't make sense to me, but it might be true.

If you do feel the DEC would run an 8 stack look alike better than any other ECU out there, would you be interested in trying it? I could see if anyone who is trying to put one together is in your area and would be willing to buy it and have you tune it for them. If your interested I could post that and point them to this web site.

[decipha]

yea thats cool, within 100 miles of new orleans would be ideal, tell them to call me on my mobile five oh four six oh six oh five three two

would be best if they having a running setup to begin with so we can do a true a/b comparison and also work out any bugs

[olddog]

Decipha,

I haven't heard anything from the Club Cobra guys. 83 views so far, no comments. I chose to say as little as possible. One, I don't know you well enough to know what you would like or not and didn't want to pretend to speak for you.

I have never figured you out. I have no clue how you learned and know all that you do. No idea how you can spend as much time as you do freely helping anyone who asks. I'm not really certain why you developed the DEC and why you made it so capable of doing just about anything. Is this just a hobby or is it your day job too? Don't get me wrong I am not complaining at all, and honestly it is none of my business. You just fascinate me, to be honest.

So what ever happened with the units that the Marine Engine fellows tested? If you are bound not to talk about it that is fine.

The capabilities of the DEC is impressive, but the cost seems high. Perhaps too many options packed into one box increases the price too much. Maybe breaking out a few different models that specialize in different markets could cut the hardware costs down. For instance being able to support 12 cylinders is fine, if needed but a guy with a 4 or 6 cylinder engine doesn't need all of that. For the average hot rod gear head 8 cylinders is plenty. I don't know if that would bring the price down much at all or not. I expect you have already mulled this over anyway. No doubt you know more about this subject than anyone I have ever met. It just seems a shame that this product isn't making it to a market of gear heads that I think would love it.

Actually the price break down you showed in 2014 is not bad at all in volume purchases. If 20 people pooled together it would be cheaper than most stuff on the market. So maybe it is more a question of how to jump it to the volumes needed to make it desirable.

Rick

[decipha]

damn 83 views and no comment, that doesnt sound too promising

I made the DEC originally just to see if I could do it, It was nothing more than me wanting to test myself, along the way I learned a shit ton more than I ever imagined.

The marine guys didnt work out, when it came time the big boss said why change when the MEFI works and didnt want to put up the cash.

as for sharing knowledge, to quote myself
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1143

I believe the more informed the community is the better we will be as a whole, thats why Ive made all the write ups I have and posted my base tune files for free for the world to enjoy and have this support forum, etc... The greatest wealth in life is the knowledge we possess. I spend an astronomical amount of my time maintaining and doing for the DIY community that it cuts into my personal and work life substantially. Yet, I still manage to carry out a ~60-70hr a week full time job in between. Ive asked myself is it worth it and I believe it is. If I learn just one single thing in the process then that time is well spent in my opinion. And the knowledge others gain from my teachings have a moral reward. I know what I can do. I have yet to figure out what I can't. Thats what pushes me to take it that much further.

as for my background its all in my introduction thread

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=545

yea i contemplated DEC-4, DEC-6, DEC-8 and DEC-12 cyl versions, they would all be the same just lack the hardware, it saves about $40 per cylinder on injector and coil drivers

as for support, the actual binary doesnt affect the price, it would actually take me more time if i had to limit things for different versions

Ive also separated the body controls from the ecu now as well, the non critical features like alarm, wiper control, head lamps, trailer brake etc... Are controlled by an additional expansion module you plug into the side of the d.e.c.

now that i almost have my house paid off ill prob be getting back in to it full time, the biggest obstacle for me right now is getting that scp array sorted out, once i do itll be over with

[olddog]

To be honest I never saw your introductory thread, and I have looked and cannot find it on my own. The link worked. I was just trying to figure out how I missed it, but I cannot find it. I admit I am not the most astute web site searcher.

I worked 37-1/2 years for Dow Chemical. I never let that hit the web before, but since they just sold me to another company, what the hell. Don't get me wrong Dow was a great company to work for, and I'm not bitter. They did me a favor, but not so much for the younger guys. The point though was that I was in Louisiana Division around 1990 give or take. I never did chase women, so I'm not trying to say you could be my lost son. Just that I have been in your neck of the woods.

I spent most of my career programming proprietary computer based control systems, for machine operation. It was a proprietary computer language, similar to Fortran. The last 15 years I have done more Programmable Logic Controller (PLC) work, that use ladder logic. Ladder logic is very similar to an electrical print. The plant I work in Extrudes plastic into a thin film and winds it into rolls. The plastic patch in a window envelope you get in the mail is one product we make. Foam picnic plates that are printed have a thin layer of our (or a competitors) film laminated to them. Lots of food and some medical applications too.

I was actually surprised at your age. I expected you to be older. Maybe that explains how quickly you get over my head. I am only 58 years old but mentally I have always thought like someone 20 years older than I was, so mentally I am a dinosaur in some ways. You seem to conduct yourself a bit older than you are, be careful not to suffer my fate.

I did talk to one guy, I think he is in Missouri, but he has his engine running fairly well, and doesn't have any desire to spend more money on it. He has a Ford FE 390 stroked to, I think, 432 and fairly mild cam 222/228 @ 0.050". I expect that cam could be made to run well fairly easily. He did look at you site.

[decipha]

The member introductions section is under the range

Ive done some work out at dow taft, its right outside of norco a few miles down 310

yea i get that alot, in person i look alot younger too so it throws people wayy off