Siemens 80lb inj slopes

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Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:37 pm

I've got my new 408 turbo combo running but was surprised at the injector data I had to load to get my AFR in the ballpark. I have (what I believe to be) 80lb Deka injectors....but the slopes(these are the unscaled values) I had to load were the following:


Lo slope 53
Hi slope 49.48


Injector data calls for

ALOSL 101.4599
AHISL 75.1594


Thought I may have been given 60lb ers but they have the blue at the injector end......anybody had issues like this? Knock offs?
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby AmericanLocomotive » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:44 pm

Did you change anything else? Fuel pressure holding up?
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:34 pm

steady fuel pressure around 40psi, new Magnafuel 4303 pump so lots of fuel. I havent even road tested yet just tuning idle right now. She's consistent around 14.7 at hot idle with those new slopes I posted and stays in the ballpark when I free rev to test MAF curve.
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby decipha » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:48 pm

something is seriously wrong, if your maf curve is anywhere near correct you should be severly overfueling
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:14 pm

I've got the PMAS HPX-e and using your curve on the site....wondering if I've got 60's that were labelled as 80's? Cold start just fired up ok with those slopes as well...
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:59 am

I've double checked my scaling....and the MAF curve would have to be no were in the ballpark and I'm sure it is.

Only thing I can figure is that I've got a set of 60's that were labeled as 80's(or fakes )....who would you recommend to buy a set of 80's from?
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby decipha » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:57 am

a high slope of 49 will cause severe ovefueling with 60s as well

what is your idle mafv and what do you have the flow set at ?

an hpxe in a 3" pipe will require you to scale the maf, its easiest if you just go 50%
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:59 am

I used 1500 to scale and got 1.767 as my %.

MAFV is around .9 and MAF is around 17.5
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby decipha » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:18 am

thats not too far off then, apparently you failed to scale the injectors as well
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:57 am

Below is how I scaled the injectors:

MAF max 2649.971 divide by 1500 to scale 2649.71/1500 = 1.767

scaling percentage 1.767


PID unscaled Scaled

SARCHG 408 230.9459236

ALOSL 101.4599 57.43076056
AHISL 75.1594 42.54352217
FUEL_BRKPT 0.000024211 0.37045E-05


I had to bring the Scaled slopes down to 30 and 28 to get AFR dialed in......this is why I believe I have injectors that are really 50-60lbers.

What kind of pulsewidth should I see at idle with the 80 lbers?
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby decipha » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:35 pm

the pw at idle will vary by rpm i would guesstimate on your setup around 2 msec

what rpm are you idling at?
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:21 pm

I'm idling around 850 and pulsewidth is around 1.7ms

My previous post didn't go as planned, hopefully this is a little more readable

scaling percentage 1.767

PID---------------unscaled ---------------Scaled

SARCHG------------408-----------------230.9459236

ALOSL----------101.4599---------------57.43076056
AHISL-----------75.1594----------------42.54352217
FUEL_BRKPT----0.000024211---------0.37045E-05
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby decipha » Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:14 pm

looks good, set the injectors to their scaled percent and dial in the maf, should all fall right into place
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:13 pm

Well that's where I have a problem....with those scaled slopes it runs wicked lean...I had to bring the slopes down to 28 and 30 to get AFR to stoich
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby decipha » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:26 am

I personally wouldnt worry about it, I recommend putting the actual scaled injector info in and dialing in the maf, see what you got and recalculate it after you get it dialed in so you have a better idea how your fuel is laying out
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:41 am

Thanks man, appreciate the advice.
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby sherby » Mon May 02, 2016 7:07 pm

Almost identical issue if that can help you and others.

Same "too lean to run" situation. We both have pretty similar air and fuel setups with mine running Delphi 96lb low impedance injectors and a HPX-E in a 3.5in tube. Now:
-Your scaled high slope is 42.5lb, but needs 28 to run OK. The OFF factor is 1.5.
-My scaled high slope is 53 lb, but needs 35 to run OK. The OFF factor is 1.56.
Surprisingly close. I wonder if this is a cosmic coincidence.

I did sanity checks on both air and fuel:
-I contacted PMAS with the issue and they sent me the latest HPX-E file. They stand by their calibration system saying it should never be off by a factor as large as 1.5. My sensor is installed with almost 20 inches of straight section ahead and my piping is 3.5 inches in diameter from start to end.
-I checked the serial numbers of my Delphi injectors and they match 96 pounders. Injectors have been flowed and match by Acceleronics. Base fuel pressure is on target at 43 psi.

Since it is highly unlikely that injectors have been mislabeled in both of our cases (this too was my first thought), I therefore wonder if the calibration tool of the HPX extended version could be systematically off ... by a factor of ~1.5 ?!?

What do you think ajy113 based on your own experience ?
Decipha any inputs -- Do you know of anybody who actually flow bench these HPX-E sensors to double check their calibration ?

Cheers to all and grateful thanks to Decipha for his outstanding work !!!
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby decipha » Mon May 02, 2016 7:32 pm

I've personally found the pmas published data to be off quite a bit

I always simplify and dial in the pmas mafs, life is much simplier that way
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby sherby » Tue May 03, 2016 6:23 pm

Thanks Decipha
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Thu May 05, 2016 8:15 am

Yep, I had to enrichen the MAF curve quite a bit but it all seems good now. Haven't had time to road test yet but she idles like a champ.

Decipha, thanks again for the help
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby 91GTman » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:12 pm

Ajy113, how much % did you have to adjust the maf? Did you have to make additional adjustments to deal with change in load?
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Re: Siemens 80lb inj slopes

Unread postby ajy113 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:27 am

91GTman, If I remember correctly the MAF curve was off by alot....maybe 30%?
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