Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:39 am

i dont think i know
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:50 am

can you please explain why no overlap at 6000? thanks ;)
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:34 am

physics
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:47 pm

midnight_man wrote:can you please explain why no overlap at 6000? thanks ;)

You know torque drops off because the 4 cycle process becomes inefficient. A result of insufficient time for each cycle to start and complete entirely. So combustion gases remain in the cylinder at the end of the exhaust stroke and the intake cycle is affected by that. Additionally the exhaust back pressure from the turbine will be high at high rpm and load. So the 16° valve timing overlap is not enough to cause a fuel in exhaust issue at 6000rpm.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:52 pm

With regard to the double valve springs fitted to that engine, I have asked you about the cams fitted to that engine a few times, did you dial gauge the profiles to prove the overlap/cam timing of 16° that you state above?
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:07 am

thanks for explain...I have big exhaust+custom manifold and bigger turbo causing little low backpressure i think...but yes....it gives sense..

about that cams...

there are double springs sure...but there are OEM camshafts. if you look at OEM camshafts timing diagram ( I entered that timing into EEC analyzer ) and it gives me diagram with 17°overlap.

Engine is under rebuild still...They will fit OEM springs..when engine will be assembled I will use timing disc and dial gauge to check it...
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:41 pm

Don't confuse exhaust pressure after the turbine with pressure before the turbine. Over some part of the operating range exhaust manifold pressure will be higher than inlet manifold pressure.

It is fine to have double valve springs on oem cams. The fact they were fitted hints at different camshafts being fitted.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:04 am

aaah that... god :D I am still learn something new....

so we are back at the start...nobody knows what exactly happened :(
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:48 am

Yeahup, the more you learn, the less you know

Some part of the operating range can have pressure differentials the other way.
The YB is notable for being the first if not only turbo engine that had +ve pressure inlet to exhaust for some part.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:17 am

what is creating that high pressure on exuaust? There is big turbo...big exhaust?....
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:58 am

Turbine connected to a compressor.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:05 pm

Hi guys :) after a big delay (engine rebuild) I am finishing with engine assembly

I find some things that I want to share and talk about....
As I wrote before, car had problems over 5000/5500 rpm under load...nobody know what was happening, engine had bad sound...etc..

I found in every graph when 5500rpm occured in load...fuel PW is going down...every graph has this thing common.

Question is...why is ecu lowering PW when LOAD and MAF are still 100%? /I know it is issue...and it was bad idea to let ECU and MAF go to 100%/
but how EEC calculate that PW?

I thin that there is some map which is responsible for adjusting PW based on MAP....as you can see PW is changing when MAP is changing...

thanks for opinions :)
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:23 pm

Post the log for the time period in your pic.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:45 am

guys how is LOAD value exactly calculated?

how is possible that LOAD is increasing when MAF is decreasing?

I think that LOAD is causing INJPW increase=overfueling on kick-in TP...
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:13 pm

You can read about how load is calculated in the CDAN strategy book.

RPM decreasing faster than MAF, is one possibility.

To repeat email reply, get rid of that great big air leak valve and fit a recirculating relief valve to the compressor.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:17 am

Guys can you hint me what can be wrong in fuel calculations???

ET34 to ET 38....

its very rich until turbo reachs its desired pressure.....same curve for MAF and LOAD....until its going UP...its rich...
then when curve is "flat" it starts to be very LEAN.......and after little time,its going to follow lambse...

WTF? :(

Injector slope is not affecting this issue :(
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:07 pm

Guys can anybody look at picture and tell me why LOAD freezed on 160 when MAF is still rising???
it is causing lean mixture ....thanks!
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby decipha » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:19 pm

do u have arcwotcor maxed out or fn1036 dialed in? mistakenly have prldsw set to 2?
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:25 pm

midnight_man wrote:Guys can you hint me what can be wrong in fuel calculations???

ET34 to ET 38....

its very rich until turbo reachs its desired pressure.....same curve for MAF and LOAD....until its going UP...its rich...
then when curve is "flat" it starts to be very LEAN.......and after little time,its going to follow lambse...

WTF? :(

Injector slope is not affecting this issue :(

For those following along, the turned out to be failure of a recently installed fuel pump.

What volts do you now have at the fuel pump terminals with the replacement pump running?
Cheers
John
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:26 pm

midnight_man wrote:Guys can anybody look at picture and tell me why LOAD freezed on 160 when MAF is still rising???
it is causing lean mixture ....thanks!


The 1st of the 2 logs you sent me last night has the MAF pegged.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:04 pm

The 2nd of the logs also has a pegged maf.

UEGO and HEGO are not following each other well. Something amiss there such as an air leak or wiring issue.

I think you need to monitor fuel pressure at high load to be sure all is well.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:53 am

decipha wrote:do u have arcwotcor maxed out or fn1036 dialed in? mistakenly have prldsw set to 2?


this ecu GHAJ0 strategy has PRLDSW set to "LOAD".... so PERLOAD = LOAD :(
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:56 am

jsa wrote:The 2nd of the logs also has a pegged maf.

UEGO and HEGO are not following each other well. Something amiss there such as an air leak or wiring issue.

I think you need to monitor fuel pressure at high load to be sure all is well.


forget all logs...only looks on last log I send you....if you look at AFR pattern its like: RICH - LEAN - RICH ...if you move HI-Slope, this whole pattern is moving more rich or more lean....but curve of that pattern is still same in every situation, every maf transfer part...

fuel pressure is stable...now I have 14-15ms (before 21)...

Its strange why LOAD stops on 160.... (but in your T25 logs LOAD is freezing at 160 too)

if you look at FUEL PW you will see that is increasing when LOAD is increasing...then it makes big "hill" and next is almost straight curve :(

I think I will fit T25 turbo back...maybe that T35 is too big for that maf to measure correctly?

MAF is pegged sometimes in higher revs...right, but I must solve that RICH-LEAN part.....then pegged maf.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby jsa » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:05 am

I am referring to the very last log you sent me.

I am not going to waste my time looking at anything beyond the inputs until the inputs are plausible.

Well if fuel pressure is stable as determined by a differential pressure gauge, that leaves the UEGO input as faulty.

My logs top out at 160 because the oem injectors cant't supply more fuel than 160 load. You have a pegged MAF.

YOUR MAF HAS PEGGED IN YOUR LAST 2 LOGS SO YOU CAN EITHER FIT A MAF THAT WORKS AT HIGHER FLOW RATES OR FIT A TURBO WITH LOWER FLOW MAX.

Because MAF IS PEGGED, look at MAP and inj pulsewidth vs iego and afr. MAP is reasonably stable, but afr is all over the place. It screams uego or fuel delivery issue.

Get your log in excel and do a scatter chart of iego vs afr, it looks broken.

RICH LEAN RICH LEAN LOOKS LIKE UEGO INPUT IS FAULTY OR FUEL DELIVERY IS FAULTY, impossible to tell which from here.

Step 1 is always make sure the inputs are 1000% right.

GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT.
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Re: Cosworth EEC IV ecu help

Unread postby midnight_man » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:37 am

you are right..sometimes wideband does not correspond with IEGO.... but if you see some WOT parts in log, IEGO is showing RICH/LEAN/RICH....

and it has logic, when turbo is at PEAK boost, its lean...

I will doo free air calibration...

but there will be still issues with fueling...on 100%! because today I flushed new oil (100km?) and its black, and smells with gasoline.

I removed that big turbo and will fit OEM T25....and will see what will happen!
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