Fuel injected 347 build

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Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:42 am

Hello,
I have put together an engine using a 1994 Ford 302 block. Its been bored .030 and a sroker kit added. The crank and rods are Scat, pistons are forged wisecos. The top end is a Trick Flow kit TFS-K514-350 370b and features 170 heads. I plan to use a QuarterHorse to tune. My first question is will the Accel 30 pound injectors be a good fit for this combo? I am shooting for 375-400 horsepower.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:06 am

welcome to the forum

I hope u didnt go with the gapless rings wiseco usually recommends

yep the 30s are fine kick up the base fuel pressure to 55psi for extra flow
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:51 pm

Thanks for the reply. I was running short on time when I posted the question this morning. What had me wondering about injectors is I have seen some discussion about the siemans deka injectors, both 60 and 80 lbs. If I understand correctly these style injectors can be tuned for engines like mine and also have the ability to support more power should it be needed later. Are they really as good as people are saying? Is there a compelling reason to use them on a combo like mine if I never add more power? Will they even fit? And as for the rings on the Wisecos, they have an average gap of .020. I believe this is to prevent the top land from getting broke off the piston should it see too much heat. I am going to head over to Accels website and see if I can find the information needed to enter into a tune. I am new to tuning and it will be a few months before I am ready to start this engine for the first time.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:33 pm

the siemens are nice thats why most recommend them, they are also stock oem replacements for the cobra jet and bolt right in

nothing wrong with what u have, u wont find any info tho youll have to dial them in
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:16 pm

Can I start my engine for the first time with just the crossover pipe installed? The crossover, or H pipe, has the oxygen sensors in it and I was wondering if this would be enough to get me started and drive to the exhaust shop or do I need the entire exhaust before the computer can work right? I will most likely have a wide band sensor and gauge installed to keep an eye on the air/fuel ratio.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby decipha » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:27 pm

yea
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:53 am

You said I will need to set my fuel pressure to 55 psi. Can you recommend a decent regulator and gauge for a good price? I am guessing I will need it since mine is stock.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby decipha » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:21 pm

its always best to put larger injectors in it but if you must the best regulators are usually kirban, which ever one you get make sure it has a check valve so it won't bleed down pressure

aeromotive are garbage and do not have them, just stay away from them
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91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
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00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:11 pm

I am using bigger 30# injectors, do I still need to up the pressure? I thought I read somewhere that I dont. You also recommend new oxygen sensors, does it matter what ones I get? I am getting closer to putting this engine in the car and firing it up for the first time, I plan to pay you (Decipha) to tune it via email and the $400 option. I will read over the pre tuning pages again when I get closer to the day.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby PoetsRevenge » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:19 am

I would think #30lbs would be enough for your horsepower goal, however I think you might be quite conservative about how much power the combo can make. You didn't mention cam choice, or how radical the intake and exhaust are.

Even the small heads should be in the 200-220cfm range. at 347 cubes, a very efficiency oriented compression ratio (say 10:1) should come easy with that stroke, a mild street cam in the 220-230 @ .050 i would assume you'd be closer to the 400-450 range at the rear wheels.

In my mind with that much spent on the heads and bottom end, why wouldn't you rev it to at least 6k for it's peak output, which should with the right cam dialed in make you more than 400hp with the right components matched up
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:34 am

You can google the top end kit, TFS-K514-350 370b, for all of the specs. Their literature claimed 350 horsepower on a 306 using 24 lb injectors, I bought the 30 lb. The pistons I am using will get me 10 : 1 (or very close) I probably am leaving some horsepower on the table but you got to draw the line somewhere. All of this is going in a 50 year old Fairlane convertible, will be a daily driver. I am using the entire 94 mustang wiring harness and dash. Also using the sn95 front and rear suspension. All of this is already done, getting the car painted this weekend and then the motor goes in and a fresh rebuild on the t5. I still need to paint the engine compartment. Are the aftermarket oxygen sensors any good? I might have to skip the wideband, budget is getting a bit strained as I finish this project.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby PoetsRevenge » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:07 am

I've had good luck with name brand ones, The "white box" chinese one's you get at some local part stores tend to be less accurate.

Very mild cam which will probably work out well for your application. I wouldn't be surprised if you're still higher than you think. The compression and stroke advantage of a 347 is pretty noticeable compared to a plain 306
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:16 pm

I didnt want to be the guy who puts too big of a cam in the engine so I used the one provided. I realize I could go bigger but at the time I thought it would cause problems for the computer control. Besides, I dont want to twist my car in half, lol.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:40 pm

So I have my new engine part way installed. Getting ready for the big day when I fire it up. So far I have kept all of the pollution control stuff minus the cats. I figured there was no real reason to eliminate all of it and I liked having all the wiring plugs plugged in and making the computer happy. However, in the back of my mind I thought it might be silly to keep all of that stuff and it clutters my engine compartment. Then just now I was attempting to connect the metal tube that goes between the header and the EGR valve and with the new intake it is to short. So now I have decided to ask, should I , can I eliminate the EGR and while I am at it the smog pump too? I know most people do this but I never really understood why. It cant rob the engine of much power if any.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby decipha » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:14 pm

the computer doesnt care about any of that stuff u simply disable whats been removed no biggie

you can cut the egr tube and extend it with rubber hose and hose clamps no prob

yep u can get rid of all that stuff if youd like, your already this far might as well keep it.

at wot the smog pump is bypassed and the egr off, it makes 0 difference performance wise

with 30s u dont need to up the pressure, the stock regulator will be fine
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94 5spd Rionda
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:05 pm

O.K., I found a way to make the EGR tube work so yes I am keeping all of the stuff on there. I already bought the fuel pressure regulator because back at the top of this thread you said to bump up the pressure to 55psi., Well it wont hurt to have the adjustable one either way. (I got the kirben). I envision a scenario where I go ahead and pay you for the tune but after I get the initial start up tune from you it may be a bit before I can actually drive the car for the rest of the tuning, is this a problem? I just want to hear it run and I dont have the light s and stuff on yet and no tags or insurance yet. I will be ready to start it up in a matter of a week or two.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby decipha » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:34 pm

thats good, its always best to up the pressure, more pressure usually nets better atomization, thats why you see more vehicles made in the last 8 years or so run in the 50s and 60s base fuel pressure

nope no problem, some people go over a year before they follow up, not an issue just whenever you get to it

cool, let me know when your ready
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:19 pm

I would probably have had the engine all ready this weekend but I broke the ear off of the throttle body adapter and now I am waiting to get another one. As I sit here I was wondering, exactly how many perimeters are there that need attention when writing a tune? I have not yet downloaded the software for the quarterhorse or attempted to connect it so I have not had a look at any menus or anything. I am just wondering how intimidating it is to do on my own.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby decipha » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:05 pm

not a whole lot, basically plug in sane values in the spark table fn2200, dial in fn035 for peak load and 0 vac / 0 boost, make sure the throttle body stop is set correctly... ipsibr ==0 at warm stable idle, and dial in the isc multiplier fn1862 to maintain the dsdrpm from cold startup to warm, dial in the injectors settings and maf, then dial in startup enrichment in the lambse subtractor table, adjust dashpot if you have any rpm decay issues when letting off the throttle or stalling, dial in the pct_load table or at least half ass it so its close enough

thats about it

you can download the software free on the homepage and the t4m2 tune to give it a look over, follow the t4m2 instructions and you'll be in good shape, read over the write ups on the homepage and you'll have the knowledge you need to dial it in

you can also check over the online/remote tuning steps pages to get an idea of how i go about logging to make my corrections
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby jjones9620 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:56 pm

I am sure that if I take the time to learn each of those items one at a time I could do this but I have come up with another solution, I am going to do my own exhaust and with the money I save I can pay you to tune this one. So for now that is the plan. If all goes well I might be ready this weekend.
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Re: Fuel injected 347 build

Unread postby decipha » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:06 pm

thats cool just LMK
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce


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