Escort P2D Put in a 4 Cylinder /w different firing order
Re: Escort P2D Put in a 4 Cylinder /w different firing order
There's an eec-v list on the eecanalyzer website. There also used to be a eec-iv and eec-v list on the internet but I cannot find it any more.
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red5.0fogger
- Posts: 150
- Joined: 2021 Mar 22, 15:58
- Location: Newington CT
- Vehicle Information: 1986 Mustang GT, Stock block, TFS 170 Heads , N41 cam, ported cobra intake, nitrous, T5 , 3.73s
Re: Escort P2D Put in a 4 Cylinder /w different firing order
a magnetic ( pmg) and Hall effect give much different signals. The 5.0 uses the idea you mentioned about the sensor cutouts. One window in the hall effect is a different size and it then "knows" the number one cylinder by that.
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P-Vilefort
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 2023 Feb 07, 23:33
- Location: HOUSTON< TEXAS
- Vehicle Information: 1972 VOLKSWAGEN SUPPER BEETLE 4 CYLINDER BOXER ENGINE 1600CC (1.6l) CONVERTING TO FORD EEC-IV EDIS & SEFI. P2D COMPUTER CODE FOR A 1.9L SOHC FORD ESCORT FEDERAL EMISSIONS, MAF & SEFI, 19LB.HR INJECTORS.
I HAVE INCORPORATED AS MANY SENSORS AS I COULD USING FORD COMPONENETS. CANNOT INCORPORATE EGR, PCV BECAUSE THESE NEVER EXISTED ON THIS ENGINE.
Working on completing the crank trigger, cam trigger (cam position sensor for the fuel injection). Need to solve firing since the VW is different from the Ford firing order. Firing order on the VW boxer is 1-4-3-2. Number 1 cylinder is on right front corner, then behind it is number 2. Across from #1 is #3 and behind #3 is #4. When #1 is on ignition #3 is on its exhaust stroke. When #4 is on its ignition #2 is exhausting. The VW is basically a 2 bank 4 cylinder engine.
I was planning on installing two O2 sensors near the exit of #2 and #4 since this is where #1 and #4 join the exhaust system. So the O2 sensors would measure the right bank and left bank individually. There is no cat on this car either. They were not required in 1972 and since this is a 50 year old car it is not subject to the emissions standards. The Ford system is similar in operation to what was used on the Mexican VW Beetles, with injectors aimed at the intake valves and a throttle body. Air was measured using a vane system (Bosch Motronic). This system is not good at correcting to changes like the Ford MAF is designed to do.
First thing I did when considering this was to get Charles Probst's book on the Ford EEC and EFI book. Then after reading it from cover to cover, I began searching the internet. Found some good things and also a lot of BS. Found Mr. Ponthieux's postings and that led me here. I think Michael can give me a clue on how to correct for the firing order without having to buy a $450 chip. There has to be a way to modify for firing order without resorting to this.
Oh, my background is in Mechanical Engineering, Thermodynamics and Fluid Mechanics, earned when computers were still using punch cards. The personal computer didn't become readily available until about 1985-86. Potable computers were as big as the biggest carry-on luggage.
Re: Escort P2D Put in a 4 Cylinder /w different firing order
Regarding crankshaft and cam position sensors. From additional reading and listening to some Haltech videos about triggers, it appears that the Fords used a 2 wire 'reluctor' sensor and I am not sure if the cam position sensor is or was a Hall effect or a reluctor sensor.
I understand too that the 2 wire sensors do not create as clean a wave form like the Hall Effect sensors produce, but the reluctor sensors will operate successfully at much higher temperatures. The sensor position for the crankshaft position sensor is located low on the right hand side just behind the lower cover for the crankshaft pulley. Will the Ford EEC-IV computer be able to use a Hall Effect output for either the crankshaft or cam shaft position sensors? If not I will have to find a sensor that fits the physical location as well as the proper signal for the particular sensor that was originally used.
What triggering signal types does the EEC-V accept?
I could include a picture of the crank sensor location but I don't see any way to attach a picture. Any how it is not located in an air stream created by the pulley or the generator/alternator drive belt.
- Location of crankshaft position sensor VW Beetle
- Side view of sensor behind the trigger wheel
- Crankshaft sensor behind metal shield
What triggering signal types does the EEC-V accept?
I could include a picture of the crank sensor location but I don't see any way to attach a picture. Any how it is not located in an air stream created by the pulley or the generator/alternator drive belt.
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jsa
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 2021 Feb 16, 15:46
- Location: Australia
- Vehicle Information: 95 Escort RS Cosworth
2.0 YBP
CARD / QUIK / COSY / ANTI
GHAJ0
SMD-190 / SMD-490 EEC-IV
Binary Editor
ForDiag
Re: Escort P2D Put in a 4 Cylinder /w different firing order
Yes Ford use a VR sensor for crank position. For the cam position, some strategies can be set for hall or vr but the signal is different so the EEC hardware would need to suit.
You need setup the crank sensor, cam sensor, ignition module and EEC the same as the donor.
To tune the thing you are going to need a definition for P2D or whatever EEC you choose.
You need setup the crank sensor, cam sensor, ignition module and EEC the same as the donor.
To tune the thing you are going to need a definition for P2D or whatever EEC you choose.
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P-Vilefort
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 2023 Feb 07, 23:33
- Location: HOUSTON< TEXAS
- Vehicle Information: 1972 VOLKSWAGEN SUPPER BEETLE 4 CYLINDER BOXER ENGINE 1600CC (1.6l) CONVERTING TO FORD EEC-IV EDIS & SEFI. P2D COMPUTER CODE FOR A 1.9L SOHC FORD ESCORT FEDERAL EMISSIONS, MAF & SEFI, 19LB.HR INJECTORS.
I HAVE INCORPORATED AS MANY SENSORS AS I COULD USING FORD COMPONENETS. CANNOT INCORPORATE EGR, PCV BECAUSE THESE NEVER EXISTED ON THIS ENGINE.
Working on completing the crank trigger, cam trigger (cam position sensor for the fuel injection). Need to solve firing since the VW is different from the Ford firing order. Firing order on the VW boxer is 1-4-3-2. Number 1 cylinder is on right front corner, then behind it is number 2. Across from #1 is #3 and behind #3 is #4. When #1 is on ignition #3 is on its exhaust stroke. When #4 is on its ignition #2 is exhausting. The VW is basically a 2 bank 4 cylinder engine.
I was planning on installing two O2 sensors near the exit of #2 and #4 since this is where #1 and #4 join the exhaust system. So the O2 sensors would measure the right bank and left bank individually. There is no cat on this car either. They were not required in 1972 and since this is a 50 year old car it is not subject to the emissions standards. The Ford system is similar in operation to what was used on the Mexican VW Beetles, with injectors aimed at the intake valves and a throttle body. Air was measured using a vane system (Bosch Motronic). This system is not good at correcting to changes like the Ford MAF is designed to do.
First thing I did when considering this was to get Charles Probst's book on the Ford EEC and EFI book. Then after reading it from cover to cover, I began searching the internet. Found some good things and also a lot of BS. Found Mr. Ponthieux's postings and that led me here. I think Michael can give me a clue on how to correct for the firing order without having to buy a $450 chip. There has to be a way to modify for firing order without resorting to this.
Oh, my background is in Mechanical Engineering, Thermodynamics and Fluid Mechanics, earned when computers were still using punch cards. The personal computer didn't become readily available until about 1985-86. Potable computers were as big as the biggest carry-on luggage.
Re: Escort P2D Put in a 4 Cylinder /w different firing order
The crank position sensor I showed in a previous post was also used on the 4 cylinder 1.9L Escort engines. I was planning on using identical sensors to those used on the Ford Escort 1.9L engine. For the cam position sensor I was going to use the same type as used on the Escort engine but set it up in a new VW style distributor body I found on Amazon for $30. This way I don't need to destroy a good original distributor that was designed to be used with a vacuum advance. I found some pictures of the position tooth that is made with the camshaft and it would not be difficult to make one from steel or iron. I have also considered purchasing a distributor trigger wheel (iron reluctor wheel) for another vehicle and modifying it to work with the distributor shaft, while removing all the extra teeth. There are aftermarket devices setup with a single tooth wheel that use the same dimensions as the VW distributor with a single shaft in the body with the trigger device and sensor already mounted. The only supplier I found that is or was making one for the EEC-IV ignition module is no longer making that type due to a lack of the proper sensor on the market. That supplier was CB Performance. I got the crankshaft position pulley and wheel from them and they also supplied me with the compatible cam sensor information is case the supplied sensor fails. I found the identical sensor on Amazon for $10 versus $40 from CB Performance.
Where do I find the 'definition' for the P2D EEC-IV? By definition do you mean the emissions setup? If this is what you mean, then it was for all states except for California.
Where do I find the 'definition' for the P2D EEC-IV? By definition do you mean the emissions setup? If this is what you mean, then it was for all states except for California.
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jsa
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 2021 Feb 16, 15:46
- Location: Australia
- Vehicle Information: 95 Escort RS Cosworth
2.0 YBP
CARD / QUIK / COSY / ANTI
GHAJ0
SMD-190 / SMD-490 EEC-IV
Binary Editor
ForDiag
Re: Escort P2D Put in a 4 Cylinder /w different firing order
A definition file is an index for all the memory locations in the EEC binary for tuning parameters. Xdf extension for tunerpro, cry or xls(x) extension for binary editor.
Maybe Core Tuning might have one for P2D. If no one has done one then it's a case of disassembling the binary and produce your own. Another approach is to use an EEC with a definition already completed. If it were for a 6 or 8 then the definition would need to include the parameters to set 4cyl.
Maybe Core Tuning might have one for P2D. If no one has done one then it's a case of disassembling the binary and produce your own. Another approach is to use an EEC with a definition already completed. If it were for a 6 or 8 then the definition would need to include the parameters to set 4cyl.