97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

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97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby BirdMarkVIII » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:01 pm

I have read a lot of info on this subject from a lot of different sources. None of the posts, articles, comments I have read explains the actual ECM and harness that best suits the swap.

I have the complete running 97 Mark VIII and the complete running 97 Thunderbird. I am installing the 4.6 4V COP Mark engine into the Thunderbird 4.6 2V twin coil pack vehicle.

The first real question is; do I rewire the Thunderbird harness with the necessary wiring to activate the 8 coils and the cam timing function of the Mark 4V engine? Then do I have the Thunderbird ECM flashed, if so to what? or do I use the Mark ECM, which will probably allow me to start the engine? The Mark ECM has several things that are not compatible with the TBird vehicle. The trans shift points 5 speed for bird 4 speed for Mark and I believe the converter lock function is not compatible. There are several more, but getting the correct ECM, flash, for full engine functionality is my first concern, then trans, etc.

Thank you for any help with this project.
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Re: 97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby decipha » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:54 pm

its a very easy swap you have two options

you can keep what you have and just run the coil on plug in wasted spark with the cdan4 - tbird ecu. Thats what a lot of the early cobra guys do to get rid of the coil packs and clean up the engine bay. Would be the easiest.

Or swap the ecu harness for the mark viii harness and ecu

either one will do fine and wont be any problem

there is no cam timing the 4v have no phasers
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Re: 97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby BirdMarkVIII » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:35 pm

Thank you. I think it is the old problem of not seeing the forest for the trees.

Do you know where I can find a wiring schematic for the lost spark COP wiring? I understand the principal, two plugs fired at the same time, one before TDC the other before BDC.
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Vehicle Information: Swap 97 Mark VIII 4v into 97 Thunderbird 4.6 2V

Re: 97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby decipha » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:29 pm

go to tccoa and search cop conversion or cop swap
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: 97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby BirdMarkVIII » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:37 pm

I'm going to use the lost spark harness. No one will know the difference any way. However, for future reference, if I add the 8 coil wires to the Thunderbird harness, probably 8 currently unused pins, can the PCM be programmed?
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Vehicle Information: Swap 97 Mark VIII 4v into 97 Thunderbird 4.6 2V

Re: 97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby decipha » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:30 pm

the cdan4 ecu only has 4 coil outputs so youd have to swap to one with 8 outputs
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90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
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Re: 97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby BirdMarkVIII » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:24 am

Hello, back again. Well the 4V swap is complete, spent hours on the lost spark wiring harness, and it works. The car has long tube headers, no CATs an O2 sensor in each header collector, cold air intake 3.73 gear.

So I start calling around and found 4 shops with in 100 miles that can do Ford Dyno tunes. None of them will do the 97 Tbird ECM. Basically they all tell me they have had a lot of problems with the ECM. I am under the impression the 97 box is an EEC-V early version and these have been tuned for years. Any idea what is going on?

If the above is true, would a 2003 Mustang Mach 1 EEC with engine/trans, etc. harness be better?
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Vehicle Information: Swap 97 Mark VIII 4v into 97 Thunderbird 4.6 2V

Re: 97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby decipha » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:58 pm

they refuse to tune them because sct doesnt have all the parameters available to tune them correctly

I personally have no issues with the cdan4 ecus

well yea a newer ecu is always going to have more power

why not just get a remote/online tune ans be done with it?

http://www.efidynotuning.com/remote.htm
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decipha
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Posts: 16396
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer

Re: 97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby BirdMarkVIII » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:11 pm

Thank you for the information. I have been reading about the Moates products and the instructions and the software that is available. Also about tuning and data logging.

What I have figured out is I am not going to go that way first. If I understand what I have read, it is possible using the box ID from the Tbird to download the factory programming. Use the box ID from the Mark VIII, copy the fuel and timing date from the Mark and replace the Tbird fuel and timing program.

Burn A chip and install it in the J3 port.

Who can do it, how much?

Thank you.
BirdMarkVIII
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Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:00 pm
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Vehicle Information: Swap 97 Mark VIII 4v into 97 Thunderbird 4.6 2V

Re: 97 4.6 coil pack to COP conversion

Unread postby decipha » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:43 am

yea thats simple enough but theres ALOT more to it than that

the 4v makes no low end tq where as the 2v does so the shift scheduling will have to be changed as well as lock up tcc slip line pressure and converter apply rate

the 4v engine is a very dashpot needy engine and the stock 2v dashpot is not going to be anywhere near remotely suitable

idle air is going to be significantly different as well

you could copy and paste that over as well but in order to do it correctly your looking somewhere between 36 and 60 hrs minimum to do a full binary comparison to end up with nothing more than a strategy swapped copied stock tune which isn't even worthwhile to begin with.

your best bet is to do it the right way from the beginning and just dial it in properly

if u want to give the chip a try first tho the best I could do for you is $350 + the chip and shipping so $450
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decipha
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Posts: 16396
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer


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