4r70w 4-3 hunting

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4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:09 am

I am using BE and a cdan4 def from sailorbob to tune a 96 crown vic.

Its not uncommon to encounter an erratic 4 - 3 and 3 - 4 shift while at a steady cruise, this is typically due to a bad MLPS sensor found on pre 98 model vehicles. Ford redesigned the MLPS for 98+ vehicles to prevent this issue from occuring. If you encounter this problem it is highly recommended to replace the MLPS. Datalogging the actual MLPS sensor voltage input to the ecu via the payload "INDS" will make it evident if this is the issue.


I have installed a new mlps, however it is also on a new c4 b&M shift lever to use an aftermarket shifter. The slots that engage the mlps seem a bit looser and I am wondering if it allows the sensor to wiggle out of place a bit under load. I am not sure if or how I can log inds in BE. Would a change in mlps result in a change in commanded gear? I have logs from BE and from pressure sensors on the transmission itself via megasquirt.

Another reason one might have an erratic 4 - 3 downshift while coasting/decel is due to pressure loss, a leaking valve body gasket, low transmission fluid level, or insufficient tv line pressure should be suspect AFTER the MLPS has been verified to be functioning correctly.

It is a newer 2007 valve body in a 96 transmission. I did use new gaskets and cleaned and inspected all the valves but I'm not 100% on this VB it is used with unknown history.

I got the old mlps to work perfectly for like half a day at a certain adjustment but it came back. So that leads me to believe that is the issue here. However you mention pressure loss, it ONLY happens during decel, I can steady state cruise forever and it will not happen. After it is warmed up it will nearly always do it on decel now.

BE log
3-4_ford.png


Megasquirt log
3-4_ms.png
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96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
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Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby decipha » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:49 am

prob pressure then, go kick up the tvmin scalar for the gear and state it occurs
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Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:37 am

Where is your low TP 3-4 and 4-3 at? Like do they cross in any way?

Example:

3-4

1020 116.00
628 116.00
480 107.00
376 93.00
240 65.00
120 39.00
92 35.00
52 35.00
52 33.00
0 33.00

4-3

1020 109.00
640 109.00
640 104.00
488 97.00
480 85.00
400 51.00
228 31.00
0 31.00
0 31.00
0 31.00
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
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Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:39 am

Example RPM:

3-4

1020 4640.00
628 4640.00
480 4280.00
376 3720.00
240 2600.00
120 1560.00
92 1400.00
52 1400.00
52 1320.00
0 1320.00

4-3

1020 4360.00
640 4360.00
640 4160.00
488 3880.00
480 3400.00
400 2040.00
228 1240.00
0 1240.00
0 1240.00
0 1240.00
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
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Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:40 am

Keep in mind..

|MPH|*|NV_Base|*|RATIO_IN_TRANS| = |RPM|
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
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Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:51 am

Thanks for the fast replies.

034v

be_shift_curves.png


The thing is I think there is still something else modifying the shift timing, for example I have 2-3 you see there set to 67 mph after 3.0 v tps. WOT scalar set at 5700 it shifts at 5400 and 55 mph. I have everything setup per decipha's tutorial.


prob pressure then, go kick up the tvmin scalar for the gear and state it occurs


First is tvmin for dynamic tv?

NOTE: ++| = are disabled by the SW_STALTV being enabled.

I have that switch enabled and it seems to be working, in the logs the tv pressure is exactly the static pressure. Should I bump it up in FN616F or torque table? Also if you look at my megasquirt log those are actual pressure measurments, the line pressures is still 91psi when it happens. If I bump it up down low is this a fix or a test showing it is a vb leak?

This is a new transmission I just put together, all solid teflon seals and air tested great. Aside from the valve body it should only seal better and these exact values did not have this issue on the previous transmission. All I really changed were some lockup setting because of a new higher stall converter. Could the converter have anything to do with this somehow?

I'm still trying to understand the difference between gear and commanded gear. Gear is going to 3rd and the forward clutch is coming back on. Does this mean the pcm is commanding the shift? The gear parameter also looks weird in the log I posted, it actually goes to 5 occasionally? What even is 5?

I drove like 2 hours to a dyno with it not doing this at all, did like 5 pulls and it never did it on decel on dyno, 10 mins down the road from the dyno it started again. That leads me to believe it's something stupid like the mlps. I wish I could just log the voltage like you say using INDS. Would it be stupid to locktite it so I know it's not moving on the shift lever? What if I just run a multimeter to the mlps and watch the voltage while its happening?
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96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
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Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:30 am

A second question I have is regarding manual shift speed.

In BE there is a scalar manual shift enable. sw_msf. Should I have this enabled?

Also tm_m12. 1-2 manual shift 3rd gear solenoid time. Is this actually engaging 3rd gear during a manual 1-2? I put this to 0 from 1.5 seconds with no change, does this also require sw_msf to actually do anything?

manual 1-2_ms.png


You can see the manual shift in the log there and the time for the intermediate to come on and the rpm to come down. There is still about 0.2 sec accelerating through 1st before anything happens. I know there are the upshift delay timers for auto shifts to ramp line pressure but if I am already on the throttle in first the line pressure is already there and it should be fine to hit a manual shift immediately no? Is it not doing that because with sw_msf off it's still processing the shift as if it were auto with the delay? OR is this just mechanical fill time with the accumulator? I have no bottom spring on the 1-2 accumulator, with the old converter it would bark the tires with any kind of throttle. The higher stall seems to soak up some of that hit now though.
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96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
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Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby decipha » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:25 am

yes

why are you overriding tv pressure?

more pressure would resolve it

yes converter has alot to do with decel pressure

commanded gear is what the ecu is commanding

it sounds like your gear payload is corrupt

you can run a meter to see but it should be in dereks cdan4 strat

Unfortunately I can't be of much help. Clint disabled my dongle a few years back so I cant use BE. Without being able to look over your tune file theres a lot of variables that could be at play.

the msf sw is to force the trans in to a gear, usually used for dyno tuning leave it unset

afaik thats the delay time when over reving, should prob set it back

the converter has a lot to do with shift feel and pressure its very common to need more pres with a higher stalling converter
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Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:16 pm

Thanks again for the quick info. I got the impression that na engines didn't require all the dynamic modifiers and tuning would be much simpler with just static.

I will try adding pressure and see how it goes. I feel like that still doesn't explain why it would work fine for hours at one point though.

What sort of decel line pressure would you find appropriate?

Any way to get the commanded gear to respond faster?

If I set msf sw on there are no safeties? Like I can money shift it by accident and the computer will still put it in gear? I might try it out just to see if that eliminates the delay.

I will message Derek about where/ how I can log that value.

Are you saying the gear payload might be corrupt because of showing 5? How could I check this or resolve it? Revert back to known working tune?
96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
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Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:13 pm

min TV power off into 3rd and 4th at 20psi minimum?
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
034v
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Name: GLB
Vehicle Information: 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuning with my own XDF
Vehicle 2 Information: 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuned with my own XDF
Vehicle 3 Information: 2009 Ford F150, Work Horse, SCT Tuned by me

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:25 pm

Not sure how your template for BE is laid out. Only thing I have to really compare to is a Lincoln Mark VIII.
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1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
034v
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Name: GLB
Vehicle Information: 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuning with my own XDF
Vehicle 2 Information: 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuned with my own XDF
Vehicle 3 Information: 2009 Ford F150, Work Horse, SCT Tuned by me

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:48 pm

Wish I had an auto definition for my setup for tuner pro. I would prefer it but as it is sailor Bob's def for Binary Editor is the only game in town. I've integrated most of decipha's zxa5 as I could manage and his info on trans tuning.

I'm not trying to knock Derek's work, the definition is very thorough I just find BE itself a bit cumbersome. It works though.

I've thought about an entire pcm conversion just to use a more popular and supported strategy. I gotta say though the 96 cop car pcm I stuck in here before tuning was one of the strongest stock tunes I've ever driven. The shift points chucked the retaining ring right off my reverse drum.
96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
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Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:55 pm

timiacobucci wrote:Wish I had an auto definition for my setup for tuner pro. I would prefer it but as it is sailor Bob's def for Binary Editor is the only game in town. I've integrated most of decipha's zxa5 as I could manage and his info on trans tuning.

I'm not trying to knock Derek's work, the definition is very thorough I just find BE itself a bit cumbersome. It works though.

I've thought about an entire pcm conversion just to use a more popular and supported strategy. I gotta say though the 96 cop car pcm I stuck in here before tuning was one of the strongest stock tunes I've ever driven. The shift points chucked the retaining ring right off my reverse drum.



If you do go that route, I have created a CDBA4 XDF for a 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII too. It's rather large at 532k but controls everything.
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
034v
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Name: GLB
Vehicle Information: 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuning with my own XDF
Vehicle 2 Information: 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuned with my own XDF
Vehicle 3 Information: 2009 Ford F150, Work Horse, SCT Tuned by me

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:07 pm

I'd sure take a look at it. Where can I find it? Also methanol? Got more info or build thread / pictures of that car?
96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
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Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:28 pm

timiacobucci wrote:I'd sure take a look at it. Where can I find it? Also methanol? Got more info or build thread / pictures of that car?


I have the pics here.. http://mark8.site/the-turbo-96-lincoln-mark-viii.html..

I'll get you a XDF sent to your PM's
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
034v
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Name: GLB
Vehicle Information: 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuning with my own XDF
Vehicle 2 Information: 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuned with my own XDF
Vehicle 3 Information: 2009 Ford F150, Work Horse, SCT Tuned by me

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:52 pm

XDF link sent to your PM
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
034v
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Name: GLB
Vehicle Information: 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuning with my own XDF
Vehicle 2 Information: 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuned with my own XDF
Vehicle 3 Information: 2009 Ford F150, Work Horse, SCT Tuned by me

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:36 pm

Well I think adding some pressure down low may have fixed it. Drove perfectly all day today with no sign of od drop out. Thanks to both of you for the assistance and advice.

That mark is really nice. I had a mark 3 with a 460 that I loved. Do you have more details on how you constructed the hotside?
96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
General Poster
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:11 am

timiacobucci wrote:Well I think adding some pressure down low may have fixed it. Drove perfectly all day today with no sign of od drop out. Thanks to both of you for the assistance and advice.

That mark is really nice. I had a mark 3 with a 460 that I loved. Do you have more details on how you constructed the hotside?


Used custom tubular manifolds, flaming river joint, has 2½" crossover under trans bell going to a 2 piece merge that was made to go over and around the stock cradle. Has a 3" DP that travels around the cradle and back down to join the catback.

Pain in the ass to build but was done in a few months.

The pictures I had were not backed up on my Google account it seems. One day I'll get the motivation to put it up on a lift and take some pics.

Let me know what you think of that XDF.
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
034v
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Name: GLB
Vehicle Information: 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuning with my own XDF
Vehicle 2 Information: 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuned with my own XDF
Vehicle 3 Information: 2009 Ford F150, Work Horse, SCT Tuned by me

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:03 am

I took a look at the xdf. It seems very complete but I guess my problem is that I don't completely understand exactly how and when the different parameters are used for the transmission and exactly what the numbers are.

I found where I read about the manual 1-2 3rd thing as well.

If you're not flashed or chipped, then pulling from D to 2 will shift MUCH faster than going from 1 to 2. This is because the stock programming actually takes the car from 1 to 3 to 2 during a normal upshift or 1 > 2 manual upshift. But if you drop the lever from D to 2, it goes straight from 1st to 2nd. This "feature" is eliminated by any SCT-based flash or chip.


From https://forums.tccoa.com/955-4r70w-transmissions/114837-manually-shifting-your-auto-trans.html?amp=1

Post 5
96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
General Poster
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:18 am

It's not a full shift into 3rd. But it's not directly into 2nd either. There is a decided difference between the 1 > 2 and D > 2 shifts on a stock car. It can be removed electronically thanks to Jerry many years ago.
I apologize if I stated it incorrectly.


I'm doubtful of this but I can't imagine what else regarding 3rd gear makes any sense for a 1-2 shift for that particular parameter.

034v, this parameter is in your defenition as well, have you experimented with it?

I have a limited number of inputs for logging but I think I need to test this out logging forward, intermediate and direct all at once. I can tell you then with certainty if that is actually what it is doing.
96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
General Poster
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:15 pm

timiacobucci wrote:
It's not a full shift into 3rd. But it's not directly into 2nd either. There is a decided difference between the 1 > 2 and D > 2 shifts on a stock car. It can be removed electronically thanks to Jerry many years ago.
I apologize if I stated it incorrectly.


I'm doubtful of this but I can't imagine what else regarding 3rd gear makes any sense for a 1-2 shift for that particular parameter.

034v, this parameter is in your defenition as well, have you experimented with it?

I have a limited number of inputs for logging but I think I need to test this out logging forward, intermediate and direct all at once. I can tell you then with certainty if that is actually what it is doing.



Whats the scalar name? I usually address all of the timers and filters in the trans.

I usually start with these.


Min OSS Pulse (a must if you raise the speed limit)
Time to Sequence 42 Kickdown (Table)
Time to Delay Lockup During Tip In
Time to delay conv lock after 32
Time to delay conv lock after 43
Time to delay conv lock after 12
Time to delay conv lock after 23
Time to delay conv lock after 34
Throttle Rate to Unlock HiTP Tip In
Throttle Rate to Unlock HiTP Tip Out
Throttle Rate to Unlock LowTP Tip Out
Time to Delay Manual 1 Override
Min TP for TQ Reduce on Shifts
Min ECT for TQ Reduce on Shifts
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
034v
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Name: GLB
Vehicle Information: 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuning with my own XDF
Vehicle 2 Information: 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuned with my own XDF
Vehicle 3 Information: 2009 Ford F150, Work Horse, SCT Tuned by me

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:29 pm

The scalar in your definition is called time to command 3rd on manual 1-2.

Apparently I have no idea how this thing is controlling lockup because I made some changes hoping to stop the partial duty cycle lockup and now it is only going to 50% duty and never under heavy throttle. I had it going to 100% lock after peak torque but somehow that isn't working now at all. I wish there was a comprehensive description of how all these parameters interact. How do you differentiate hard and soft lock and when and where they are used?
96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
General Poster
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:15 pm

My understanding is Time to Command 3rd on Manual 1-2 is the time set if RPM to Shift Into 2 in Manual 1 is not addressed.

The WOT shift 2-3 RPM is commanded at 5750 in the CDBA4 but in D. Not manual 2. Since the RPM to Shift Into 2 in Manual 1 scalar is 5000 and someone could yank the shifter down into 2nd past 5000, this would be the timer to ignore that manual pull down to avoid a cross in WOT shifting or damaging the trans.

I am unsure how to put it. I know I shorten the Time to Sequence 42 Kickdown Table and leave the Time to Command 3rd on Manual 1-2 scalar alone in a 4.10 car base tune.
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
034v
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Name: GLB
Vehicle Information: 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuning with my own XDF
Vehicle 2 Information: 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuned with my own XDF
Vehicle 3 Information: 2009 Ford F150, Work Horse, SCT Tuned by me

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby 034v » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:18 pm

First of all, are you using the XDF I sent you to tune the MGM? The addresses are nowhere near the same for the CDBA4 and CDAN4 strategy.
1996 Mark VIII LSC - Turbocharged/Intercooled/Methanol, Stall, Tuned, Fuel Support, LSD, blah-blah, really fun, wins most. 551k XDF Available
1994 Mark VIII Farm Car - N/A, Manual Air Ride, Exhaust, Tuned, Projector Retrofit, cruiser car, fun, wins way more than before. 505k XDF Available
2009 F-150 5.4L - SCT Tuned for corn by me, pulls well.
034v
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Name: GLB
Vehicle Information: 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuning with my own XDF
Vehicle 2 Information: 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, TPRT Tuned with my own XDF
Vehicle 3 Information: 2009 Ford F150, Work Horse, SCT Tuned by me

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:15 pm

Thank you. I did test it with pressure logging and you both are correct and that guy I referenced is spouting nonsense. It does not ever engage 3rd for any amount of time on manual or auto 1-2.

What you describe makes perfect sense and I hadn't thought of that. It's the same idea as 4-2 stopping in 3rd but manual.

No I'm not trying to use your def on my car. Like I said if I was entertaining a pcm swap I bet yours is much closer than newer ones as far as wiring and functionality. Just out of curiosity I did load my bin in on your xdf and like you guessed lots of the values were nonsense.

I'm just trying to dial in my tcc lock on the new converter using the same sailorbob def in BE that I've been running and the values do not have the affects I thought they would.
96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
General Poster
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w

Re: 4r70w 4-3 hunting

Unread postby timiacobucci » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:38 pm

manual 1-2_clutch_psi.png


Direct is in yellow. Not even a twitch on the 1-2. No idea what that guy was talking about.
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96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w
timiacobucci
General Poster
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
Name: Timothy Iacobucci
Vehicle Information: 96 Grand marquis, eec-v cdan4, quarter horse, BE, sailorbob def. 80mm slot maf, 70mm e250 throttle,
pi intake and cams on npi engine, dual exhaust, 4.10 trac lok, jmod 4r70w


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