SAFTOT issue

subforum for requesting current tune review services
Not happy with your current tune? Or if you just want
a 2nd opinion, this is the place for it

SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Fri May 27, 2016 8:41 pm

ONLINE / REMOTE TUNING VEHICLE INFORMATION
________________________________________________________
NAME: Eric
FORUM USERNAME: Fasterthangas
TELE#:
EMAIL:
DATE:
LOCATION:
________________________________________________________
VEHICLE YR/MODEL: 95 Mustang GT Coupe
ECU CODE: U4P2
J3 DEVICE: Moates
PRIMARY VEHICLE USE: DD and show car
MINIMUM IDLE RPM:
MAXIMUM ENGINE RPM:
________________________________________________________
INJECTOR SIZE: 34
INJECTOR BRAND: Ford
INJECTOR COLOR: Black
FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR: Ford
BASE FUEL PRESSURE: 39.5
FUEL PUMP SIZE: 195
MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR TYPE: LMAF
MAF TUBE SIZE: 90mm
INLET PIPING SIZE: 4"
MAF CALIBRATION SIZE:
MAF CALIBRATION VEHICLE:
MAF CALIBRATION GT or COBRA:
ADDITIONAL MAF NOTES:
***IF MAF FLOW SHEET IS AVAILABLE ATTACH AND SEND***
________________________________________________________
IGNITION COIL TYPE: MSD
DISTRIBUTOR TYPE: Factory Ford
PLUGS BRAND, ITEM #, and GAP: NGK FR5 .050"
PLUG WIRES: FMS
IGNITION BOX TYPE:
***BASE IGNITION TIMING MUST BE 10 BTDC***
________________________________________________________
POWER ADDER TYPE: None
TURBO SIZE & AR OR BLOWER PULLEY SIZE:
#s BOOST:
________________________________________________________
FUEL TYPE OCTANE & GRADE: 91
METH INJECTION GPH and ACTIVATE#:
N2O SHOT:
O2 SENSOR AGE AND MILEAGE: 1000 miles 6 months
________________________________________________________
CYLINDER HEAD BRAND, MODEL AND SIZE: TFS 170
STATIC COMPRESSION RATIO: 10.5:1
ENGINE BLOCK SPECS: Factory 5.0
CUBIC INCH DISPLACEMENT: 347
CAM SPECS:
Intake Lift: .590 Duration: 224 Intake Centerline: 108
Exhaust Lift: .590 Duration: 232 X Centerline:
***IF CAM CARD IS AVAILABLE ATTACH AND SEND***
________________________________________________________
TRANSMISSION TYPE: AODE
Gear Ratios 1st: 2nd: 3rd: 4th: 5th:
WHEEL AND TIRE SIZE: 10.5" 315/35r17
REAR GEAR RATIO: 4.10
________________________________________________________
EXHAUST HEADER TYPE: 1-3/4 shortys
EXHAUST SPECS: Full 2.5" with H pipe.
________________________________________________________
-------------------------
OTHER DETAILS:
-------------------------

Issue:
My tune appears to be limited to 25.25* total advance at WOT. I just can't figure it out. If I run a tune with 21* at WOT; the actual advance will be 21*
Enter 23* total advance at WOT into the Spark Borderline Table and actual advance or SAFTOT will be 23*. The same if I enter 25*. If I enter 26* or more of total advance into the table; SAFTOT reverts to 25*- 25.25* total at WOT.
I attached a WOT log with 31* total at WOT. Check out where SAFTOT falls.

Thanks!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sat May 28, 2016 9:40 am

its giving you exactly what your commanding, the borderline spark table is only 1 of over 20 spark modifiers in cbaza that are in use to deliver the actual spark advance

if you cross calculate all the modifiers on base spark it comes out to about 25 degrees (quick calc in my head looking through your tune) which is exactly what your getting

I highly recommend simplifying spark as i do in all my tunes, instead of having 20+ modifiers to cross calculate between you simply only have one spark table, it makes it much easier

http://efidynotuning.com/saftot.htm
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sat May 28, 2016 1:07 pm

decipha wrote:its giving you exactly what your commanding, the borderline spark table is only 1 of over 20 spark modifiers in cbaza that are in use to deliver the actual spark advance

if you cross calculate all the modifiers on base spark it comes out to about 25 degrees (quick calc in my head looking through your tune) which is exactly what your getting

I highly recommend simplifying spark as i do in all my tunes, instead of having 20+ modifiers to cross calculate between you simply only have one spark table, it makes it much easier

http://efidynotuning.com/saftot.htm


Thank you. In reading the linked write up; I can't find the following scalars in TP:

spk_load_res - feedback spark desired torque (setting this to 0 will give you maximum idle spark)
after fbs_entry_tc - feedback spark entry time constant
which is clipped by spk_fbs_min - feedback spark min
and oscillated by spk_fbs_gain - feedback spark gain
not to exceed tr_delta - feedback spark torque ratio max delta (recommend value of 1 in all calibrations)
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sat May 28, 2016 7:32 pm

youll need the full cbaza definition in order to view those scalars, in order to get the full def youll have to buy BE and get the def feom derek

http://efidynotuning.com/derek.htm
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sat May 28, 2016 11:25 pm

decipha wrote:youll need the full cbaza definition in order to view those scalars, in order to get the full def youll have to buy BE and get the def feom derek

http://efidynotuning.com/derek.htm


Am I reading your write up correctly? Do I need access to those scalars to simplify timing?
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sun May 29, 2016 7:42 am

yes if you want to simplify it completely, otherwise you can get 95% of the way there
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun May 29, 2016 11:32 am

decipha wrote:yes if you want to simplify it completely, otherwise you can get 95% of the way there


Ok. Thanks! I'll skip the BE and full CBAZA def and just follow the rest of your write up. First; I think a new cam is in order to bleed of some cylinder pressure.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:35 am

you can always make it work, i'd recommend keeping it, if need be run race gas when going to the track

try this out see if she's happy
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:12 pm

decipha wrote:you can always make it work, i'd recommend keeping it, if need be run race gas when going to the track

try this out see if she's happy


What's this Michael? I finally had the car dyno'd. 326hp and 331tq. That was in the AZ heat and who knows what actual timing was.
I installed Ford Contour dual electric fans yesterday and can actually drive with the a/c on now.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:25 pm

that was your last tune we did with the shift points normalized, give it and try and see
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:42 pm

decipha wrote:that was your last tune we did with the shift points normalized, give it and try and see


Michael; everything is good now except that I still need to simplify the timing still. Looking at that .bin you just posted; the cooling fan temps are all over the place and the 4-3 shift point will have the tranny clunking again. Something is off in TP and I had to raise that shift point 10mph more. I didn't look over everything but I'm afraid to mess with the tune at this stage other than simplifying the timing. I guess I don't understand what you are trying to do with this .bin. I hope I don't come across as unappreciative. I'm up for anything that will further advance my tune.
Thanks!
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:05 pm

it shouldn't, just load it in and see, worse case you can copy the 3-4 and 4-3 shift functions over, would save you a few hours worth of making all the changes
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:12 pm

decipha wrote:it shouldn't, just load it in and see, worse case you can copy the 3-4 and 4-3 shift functions over, would save you a few hours worth of making all the changes


Ok. Thank you. So this is with simplified timing?
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:25 pm

yep thats the only way i do it, thats why you can't compare your current spark table to mine cuz i don't have any of the modifiers active that you have active in yours
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:39 pm

decipha wrote:yep thats the only way i do it, thats why you can't compare your current spark table to mine cuz i don't have any of the modifiers active that you have active in yours


Ok. Cool! Thanks. I run a 195° t-stat so that's why I was wondering about the cooling fan set points. Also; I have the fans set to run on high speed only commanded by the tune or when the a/c kicks in.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:45 pm

Fasterthangas wrote:the cooling fan temps are all over the place



???

lsf on temp 184 off at 180
hsf on temp 188 off at 184

how is that all over the place?
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:06 pm

decipha wrote:
Fasterthangas wrote:the cooling fan temps are all over the place



???

lsf on temp 184 off at 180
hsf on temp 188 off at 184

how is that all over the place?


I guess I'm confused. Wouldn't I want the fan to come on after the t-stat opens? When I run the mouse pointer over the various fan speed boxes; TP tells you that this or that fan speed should be so many degrees above or below another speed's value. Is it high temp #2 is suppose to be 12° higher than the low speed on temp? Going by memory hear.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:33 pm

She's pulling some timing at WOT. It looks like you had timing set at 22*? I had no pinging.

The 2-3 shift flares pretty good before shifting out. All shifts feel soft. Not as quick and firm as before.

WOT kickdown out of O/D is doing something funky. Maybe you can see it in the log. It's like two delayed downshifts.

I need to turn in the TB screw for more rpm. She's idling too low.

I forgot to mention that I'm making peak power on the dyno at 5700rpm.

I've never seen the fan speed value at "14". At one time it was "12" at start up. Usually I get either "1" or "2".
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:21 pm

no if u have heating issues then youd want the fan to come on sooner so it has some chance of cooling

if no cooling issue go ahead and kick em up

the fan on and off can be set to whatever you like

no need in logs that was just for you to try out, you can copy all the spark related stuff over to your current tune so its simplified
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:33 pm

decipha wrote:no if u have heating issues then youd want the fan to come on sooner so it has some chance of cooling

if no cooling issue go ahead and kick em up

the fan on and off can be set to whatever you like

no need in logs that was just for you to try out, you can copy all the spark related stuff over to your current tune so its simplified


Thank you!
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:46 pm

I assume that I still change the timing in the Brderline Knock table?
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:22 pm

yep
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:47 pm

decipha wrote:yep

Thanks.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:11 pm

From your write up:

"the MBT Spark table FN2300 is modified
by the Adder for Lambse function FN730
the Adder for EGR function FN731
and the Adder for Vehicle Speed FN743 "

In your supplied CBAZA; I show a FN721 as the EGR adder. You have the table zero'd out in the .bin file you posted. Is FN731 in Derek's definition only? Are the two the same?

I also show FN2140 as Spark Base Adder For AF Ratio. Is this the same as FN730 listed in your write up? The .bin file you posted shows this table zero'd out as well.

I can't find an Adder for Vehicle Speed in your CBAZA def.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:35 pm

the cbaza xdf for tunerpro is not the complete def, its missing several thousand variables, i've never publicly released my personal cbaza for tunerpro just yet

until i do your best bet would be to copy your trans parameters over the tune above with simplified timing already
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:48 pm

Your write up states the following:

"Base Spark Tables
Base spark: the Sealevel Spark FN2100 and Altitude Spark FN2110 Tables are modified by:
ECT - FN2120
Lambse - FN2140
EGR - FN711
BP Bias - FN712

For ease of keeping track of timing many folks just set the base tables high, say 60 to disable them since the ecu uses the lowest calculated spark. "

The .bin file you posted above does not show the base tables set high at 60? Boy am I getting cornfused!
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:51 pm

decipha wrote:the cbaza xdf for tunerpro is not the complete def, its missing several thousand variables, i've never publicly released my personal cbaza for tunerpro just yet

until i do your best bet would be to copy your trans parameters over the tune above with simplified timing already


Ok. Will do. But....Does your tune have the correct AFR? I can't remember if we completed that?
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:48 pm

yep, everything was dialed in except the trans
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:33 pm

decipha wrote:yep, everything was dialed in except the trans


Cool beans! Just to double check...Transfer everything under "Transmission" under "Parameter Tree"? There are no other hidden tables or anything that fall into the tranny tune?
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:52 am

would be best to compare your dirty tune to stock, then just copy all the trans changes over to the simplified tune

you could prob just ask willie to simplify timing in the tune for you, that would be the fastest route, he should have access to all the spark modifiers
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:51 am

decipha wrote:would be best to compare your dirty tune to stock, then just copy all the trans changes over to the simplified tune

you could prob just ask willie to simplify timing in the tune for you, that would be the fastest route, he should have access to all the spark modifiers


To be honest; Willie wouldn't help me with this issue. He told me "Keep digging it's not doing it for no reason." :roll:

I just took the car to a local dyno tuner and asked for help. All I got was a verification that the car felt strong and that the AFR was dead on. :?

Thus; I've returned to your forum for answers.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:03 am

man that really sucks, soon as i get a chance ill go through it and post it back simplified for you
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:33 am

decipha wrote:man that really sucks, soon as i get a chance ill go through it and post it back simplified for you


It really does suck. All I've wanted to do was enjoy this car. I appreciate any help that I can get.
Thank you Michael. I'm indebted to you.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:14 pm

I'm hitting a different dyno in a few hours. Being that I can't get over 25° of timing as my tune stands; can I just pull the spout and lock in higher timing?
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:05 pm

excuse my blunt-ness but thats gotta be one of the stupidest things ive ever heard

you dont really expect a different dyno to change the physical limitation of your engine do you? That would defy physics

why would you want any more than 25 degrees of timing?

theres absolutely no difference between the ecu commanding 25 degrees or yanking the spout and setting it to 25 degrees, or any degree for that matter, except locking the timing will kill the engines efficiency severely at anything other than WOT on the big end
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:46 pm

decipha wrote:excuse my blunt-ness but thats gotta be one of the stupidest things ive ever heard

you dont really expect a different dyno to change the physical limitation of your engine do you? That would defy physics

why would you want any more than 25 degrees of timing?

theres absolutely no difference between the ecu commanding 25 degrees or yanking the spout and setting it to 25 degrees, or any degree for that matter, except locking the timing will kill the engines efficiency severely at anything other than WOT on the big end


The first dyno session I had with a different shop was somewhat sketchy. The numbers and graph were odd. Also; my car was running hot then.
Today I went to a friend's shop and ran on his Dynojet with the Contour fan setup. I had a car that ran nice and cool for more consistent pulls.
I have not dyno'd the engine at various timing points before today. My goal was to see where she made best power.
I was only able to get 25* total out of my tune as you and I have discussed before. I wanted to see if she made more power above 25* total.
Being that my timing isn't simplified; I wondered if locking the timing out at say 27* would give me 27* actual on the dyno.
It didn't sound stupid to me for a dyno test?
Well we tried it. I pulled the spout and set the timing to 27*. I did a pull and she started popping and the timing did not lock in at 27*. The computer shut down the fuel and she started popping.

Why wouldn't I want to try more timing? Before today; I had no idea where the engine ran most efficient. I was just guessing at the best timing at WOT. Due to a few issues; I still don't know.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby StangD » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:03 am

I'll be blunt too Eric as I have watched Project Hemorroid unfold over the past year. I hate to see you having to keep changing horses in the middle of the stream. It is going to cause problems with your knowledge level. (mine too for that matter). I have had previous engines tuned by Chris at Poweradder. Learned a ton from Michael as I currently use his -2 tune. Willie is good too though I've never hired him. Point being they all skin the cat a little different. IMO something real bad is going to happen with this timing or trans if you aren't very careful with the mix and match so you better make sure your questions here are very clear.

And I'm not so sure your power numbers are all that out of line. I am just now finishing my first tune on a heavy AODE car for a friend. What a power sucking combo that is. Basically the same as my first combo in a lighter T5 car. Wow what a difference. It's pretty pathetic by comparison. I'm pretty sure I'Il never own an auto unless I have a blower to "fix it". I think it would get very cashy to make an AODE do what I want.
94 Mustang GT-T5-347(Fordstrokers DIY)-TF190s,FTI Cam,Ported Victor EFI,42s-LMAF,85MM TB-Nitrous-Suspension mods and DRs.
CBAZA-TM40

12.1 @119.50 NA

Pulling baby wheelies and breakin stuff.
StangD
Supporting Member 25
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:14 am
Name: Dewayne
Vehicle Information: 94 Mustang GT T5 CBAZA TM40

347 TF190-Victor EFI-LMAF- 85MM TB- 42s,4.10s-DRs

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby Fasterthangas » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:39 am

What do you guys suggest I do? I seem to be going about this all wrong. I've searched for guidance for a year now and things still aren't correct. This leaves me to my own devices while trying to solve issues created by professional tuners.

I have a tune that will not let me try any total timing above 25*. Timing is being pulled from so many parameters. I ask the tuner for assistance and I get a weak reply suggesting that I fix the tune after I paid him.

I can't start the car with a/c turned on and sometimes the car dies when a/c is turned on after the car is running.

I take my car to a guy who tunes for the Prince of Dubai. I kid you not! I ask him to verify that my tune is legit and AFR is correct. In return; I get a piece of paper that is suppose to be a dyno chart, but is actually a useless piece of crap.

When we dyno'd the car yesterday; the car would not stay in 3rd gear for a broad RPM dyno. We'd get it rolling in 3rd at 2500 rpm and then I'd nail it. The car would shift down into second and throw off the dyno graph with a large peak. How did the other shop dyno the car with the same thing happening?

The more I try; the more I seem to get screwed. This has been a nightmare literally.
Fasterthangas
Power Poster
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:28 pm
Location: AZ
Name: Eric
Vehicle Information: '95 Mustang GT
347 SBF
10.0:1 cr
Systemax ll
230/238 @ .050 custom cam
AFR Renegade 185 heads
Ford Racing EV14 34lb. injectors
90mm Lightning MAF
4" CAI
Accufab 75mm TB
T5
3.73's
1-3/4" shorty headers into 2.5" duals out the back with H pipe. Jones Maxflow straight through mufflers

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby decipha » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:07 pm

what issues are you having specifically?

why would you want more than 25° that will just slow the car down and hurt the engine?

you can do the mechanical idle control to your tune and copy the isc multiplier table from the tune we did

to lock into gear you have to set the msf switch
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Ponthieux
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce

Re: SAFTOT issue

Unread postby StangD » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:10 pm

Stop me if I say something inaccurate Mike...

Eric,

I know this has been aggravating. Sorry if that sounded harsh. My gut feeling is your tranny isn't quite right mechanically and nobody on the internet can possible know for sure if that is the case without disassembly and inspection. A couple guys have tried to tune the trans and problems remain. It doesn't do what it is expected to do with tune tweaks after countless attempts.

As far as timing, don't get hung up on a TOT timing number. When it makes max power that is where you are. It is a result of the efficiency of your build. We are old timers used to old motors that liked a lot of timing on less than optimal technology. I really thought my engine would prefer at least 32-34 total on the track because my yesteryear motors did. My ET slips say I am putting my engine at risk for little to no gain when I try it. Dynos and tracks tell the real world truth. A couple degrees isn't going to make 50HP magically appear after all your testing. It just isn't.

You can have Ed cut another cam that will kill compression and allow more timing. Compression makes power. Ed tries to maximize compression for your combo. You'll lose some cutting compression and then try to make up for it with a happy timing advance number. And power will move + or - 5HP. Not worth the effort. He has cut 100s if not 1000s of cams for Corral forum guys. You'll have a problem finding complaints. If you gave him good info that isn't your problem. I just installed my third FTI cam.

My gut feeling is your tranny or converter just isn't quite right. I wish I knew who could solve that and I know it isn't inexpensive.

Want to put the timing issue to rest? Run her about empty. Take her to the dyno and throw 5 gallons of race fuel in it. Lock the timing out and try 28-30 advance or whatever. Put a ight on it to verify you are getting the timing you want to try. Prove it to yourself because that is who needs to believe after a year of this.
94 Mustang GT-T5-347(Fordstrokers DIY)-TF190s,FTI Cam,Ported Victor EFI,42s-LMAF,85MM TB-Nitrous-Suspension mods and DRs.
CBAZA-TM40

12.1 @119.50 NA

Pulling baby wheelies and breakin stuff.
StangD
Supporting Member 25
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:14 am
Name: Dewayne
Vehicle Information: 94 Mustang GT T5 CBAZA TM40

347 TF190-Victor EFI-LMAF- 85MM TB- 42s,4.10s-DRs

Next

Return to <<--Tune Review-->>

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests