Load and fueling

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Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:42 pm

Figured I'd post on here having found a few moments to myself away from the daily grind. I'm just making sure I'm on the right path and realize there is a lot more to dial in but one step at a time. Attached is an OL WOT pull in 3rd, Just making sure I'm doing this right but in the write ups it recommends leaving perload set to 0 but also mentions that perload should be close to 1.00 at all rpm. I don't quite understand the PRLDSW switch patch and of course I think we use FN035 to dial in load. I'm Commanding 0.875 Lambse at WOT but in the log you can see Lambse doesn't leave 0.992 and obviously isn't seeing the load needed to command the load cell of .90 = 0.875. Guessing I need to raise the load values in FN035 to get it to see the load and reference base fuel properly and then make my wideband match my lambse.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:01 pm

Just noticed I was making changes to the FN035 depreciated table vs the FN035A. So do you have to enable the patch or what is the patch all about ?
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:11 pm

Also just noticed I should be posting this in the tune review section. I cant ever seem to delete a post. Delete this if need be and I can move it over.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby decipha » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:09 am

you need to read the comments on each parameter to see what it does. it is all detailed greatly in the comments and will tell you everything you need to know.

Press F10 when you have a parameter selected to bring up the comments box or pause the mouse over the parameter and the comments will pop up.

FN035 being all 0s should have been a clear indicator that the function doesn't exist.

you should never force open loop.

why did you command .992 instead of 1.0 lambda in the base fuel table?

why do you have the engine size set to 777 cubic inches?

you corrupted the maf transfer
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:47 pm

Hmm this doesnt sound like the file I was working with and thank you I couldn't get the comments section open. I'll report back tomorrow and see what the heck is going on
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:22 pm

Yup wow not sure WTF happened with Sarchg value and how that happened as well as the corrupted maf table. I will start over and keep it in closed loop and get the part throttle stuff back in line and then go from there. Thank you for the feed back.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:32 pm

Also I was taking your advice at giving the engine what it needs and I always found it to run a little lean and lean shake at 1.0 and we mostly have mixed E10 at our pumps here that's states up to 10% ethanol. So I thought I was making the correct changes at trying to run for a stoich value of .992 / 14.08afr ??
But If I run shell 91 it shouldn't have any in it. Let me know if this was completely wrong.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:35 pm

Also game changer knowing how to access the comments!
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby decipha » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:09 pm

you can't change stoich anymore than you can change the suns heat. The fuel table is in lambda 1.0 == stoich.

ethanol doesn't affect the fuel table unless your commanding a richer mix at wot for example with e10/gasoline you'd command .875 at wot n/a where as with e85 you'd command .825 at wot n/a. Other than the that the fuel tables on all fords are set and forget.

yeah the comments will give you all the info you need.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:54 pm

Ok but with that being said I get it 1.00 = stoich which you can set and forget in the base fuel table which then your lambse will want to command and adjust for 1.00. But with e10 from what I've read the stoich value is around is .992 / 14.08 so wouldn't you want the part throttle stuff to be commanding a little richer for the E10 blended gasolines ?
Doesn't everything reference the base fuel table for part throttle up to 0.75 load. I'm guessing just set it and forget it at 1.00 and dial in the maf to run where it needs to be?
But if a guy sets base at 1.00 and shoots for a .992 lambda for part throttle wont the lambses try and adjust a fuel error to 1.00 which is set in the base? Which I'm guessing a small error is no biggie and seems to run fine like that.
maybe over thinking it but its how I learn I suppose is asking to many questions and reading things 100 times. More of a hands on kinda guy to learn
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:01 pm

Brand Stoich Comments
Pump Gas Non-Ethanol 14.64 Does not exist in most parts of the USA
Pump Gas E10 14.08 typical fuel at most pumps in the USA
This is what made me think differently about the stoich values from the fuel write up

1.00 obviously though is easier for a not so math wizard like me to reference the fuel error as well lol
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:00 am

Where did you read that e10 stoich is 0.992 ?

Stoich is 1.0 thats the definition of stoich == 1.000 lambda.

No, in closed loop the o2 sensors control fuel there is no table for it since the ecu isnt controlling fuel the o2s are.

The stoich AFR for the fuel your running has no affect on the fuel table. You simply change the stoich afr scalar for the stoich of the fuel your running. The stock stoich afr scalar value in the a9l2 is already e-10.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:34 pm

I used the base fuel FN 1307/1362 AFR and when I changed the AFR value to 14.00 it changed the value to 0.992 in the Lambda table.

I understand now what you mean by the value of stoich and that different fuels can have a different stoich value but stoich is still 1.00 lambda

I sure forgot about the stoich value scalar and see now that if you set the base fuel to 1.00 = stoich i'm guessing it references the AFR scaler of whatever fuel your running 14.08 etc and is that what the lambses are basing and commanding from ?
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby decipha » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:33 pm

yep that's to further help illustrate why its always best to use lambda which can never be wrong.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:02 pm

Awesome, Thanks for the clarification Decipha, I'll start fresh and see what I can accomplish.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:50 pm

Current .bin I'm working / learning on. Pick it apart please, Don't pay to much attention to the last few cells of the maf, they are out of wack and need to lean out from what I can tell as well as the ups and downs throughout the curve

1) Having an issue with adjusting MAF curve and then Perload gets out of wack. Is it normal while dialing in the MAF the preload needs minor adjustments up and down as well to keep everything in line? This is a 3rd gear WOT pull from approx. 2000 rpm

2) Would like to use the histograms properly as I see them as a valuable tool. There are 2 screen shots attached based on this Log file for preload and wideband history. If the history average for perload on the histogram shows at 2500 rpm 1.20 do you add 20 % to that area or have to remove 20% from that area in FN035A

As per the WB error if it shows .962 as the error i'm guessing its showing 4% rich and you have to add 4%

Or is it as follows, if the lambse is commanding 0.875 and the error in the histogram is .962 is it telling you to richen it up to achieve 0.875. Guessing its a calculated error and you have to punch in that actual error its showing you at that maf voltage

I will be running over the write ups again as well.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:51 pm

Ah just read a thread In the forum and I think I was making wrong adjustments to FN035A. Lets say at 3000 rpm perload shows 1.20 on he data dash highlighted in red because its above 1.00 then I go into FN035A and input 1.20 at 3000k rpm ? as its showin the actual load ? /assuming fuel is dialed in of course.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby canuck1 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:50 pm

Perload is percentage of load, so you can use perload as a correction factor and multiply the perload you're seeing at that rpm on dashboard by your existing load value at that rpm in FN035A and changing your current FN035A value at that rpm to the result. Alternatively, you can simply replace your existing load value at that rpm with the actual LOAD value you see on dashboard at that rpm. On my default dashboard layout, LOAD is displayed just to the left of perload.

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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:58 pm

Ok so i was doing it correctly the first round . If at 4k rpm perload shows 1.32 and my actual value at 4I is .65 x 1.32 = .93

As I mentioned previously do you have to somewhat jump back and forth a little from perload to fuel (maf trans) to get the desired results to all mesh and match the lambse

Also it was idling great and now for some reason at idle the lambse will climb to 1.32 and wideband pegs to 1.17 and u can tell its lean shaking. Not sure why the lambses are trying to lean it out. Was idling around 1.0-1.02 previously. This same thing happened to me last year half way through the tuning process, once the idle area of the MAF was adjusted and working good I don't touch it again so not sure wtf lol
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:49 am

Thanks for the info btw sean, I do use the same dashboard layout and have LOAD just to the left of PERLOAD.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby canuck1 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:00 pm

No prob. I know you'd rather have Decipha answer... I didn't see the forum section heading before I responded :oops: . You're right though, any FUEL error gets baked into the load values you calculate and enter into FN035A, so you may need to revisit FN035A settings as you make changes.

I'm no help at all with your idle issues. I'm sorting through my own idle problems.

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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:10 pm

Not at all man, Decipha is a wealth of knowledge but I appreciate any help from the members of this forum and hopefully I can gain some knowledge with this stuff and help others as well.
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby PaulC-turbo5.0 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:46 am

is the car at a warm stable idle when it leans out? what are the hego/hegos doing when it does this?
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:22 am

Yup warm stable idle, Will get an idle log next week when I catch up at work and get some more seat time in the fox. I have a feeling it has to do with the long tube headers and fairly large cam profile. Most likely cooling off the o2 at idle and iirc the hegos got stuck around .800 pr so and wouldn't switch. Gonna check the o2 circuits and make sure everything is working. Thoughts?
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Re: Load and fueling

Unread postby brewster » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:55 am

Quick update, tore into the wiring harness and started checking the o2 sensor circuits. Have power, ground and then found high resistance on the signal wires heading back to the eec. 10-12ohm. Cleaned connector terminals on the jumper harness and at the eec end and now down to 0.5 ohm. Have to get the wiring back together and sealed up and hopfully this was a major part of the problem I've been having with the o2 sensor readings. Will report back
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