Convert to FBGI0

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Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby ShadowDrake » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:15 pm

Hey Decipha,

You got me started with FBGI0 a while ago but I couldn't get the car to start on the file you gave me. The injector data wasn't close, seemed like it was load scaled... but I couldn't get the car to fire like that no matter how much I changed stuff around. I DID finally manage to get it to idle by putting in non-scaled values for the injectors, MAF, etc. The MAF clipped up top but I was just trying to get the car to run. It would idle but I couldn't get it to work at even part throttle.

Since I'm so far out on that I'm asking for help.

I have, however, managed to get my FBFG2 tune running mostly acceptably. Startup is great every time at any temperature, transients could use a little bit of work, spark needs work, WOT fuel is too rich when IATs get high. I haven't made a full pull because I'm pretty certain I'm going to be out of injector. Changing the fuel pressure setting doesn't work. But I've got some dyno time coming up in the near future and I'm going to map out the timing.

That's all an aside, the basis of it: I have an FBFG2 tune that the car daily drives around on very nicely. I'd like to get it swapped over to FBGI0 so I can bump up the fuel pressure and get to something that's a little better supported.

The sheet is below and I can get some datalogs as needed, if needed. If you want some cash to help me get this converted over, let me know. I'm just at a loss on making FBGI0 work based on the file that you sent me before. My tune file has improved a little bit since, but I haven't had to do too much. It's not at the drive-it-and-abuse it stage yet. I just want to get it running with a higher base pressure so I have a chance at making the injectors work.

The last you got back to me on was here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3197&p=42205#p42161

But I figure it needs to be more official since I'm useless. The tune file is attached. Let me know what I should change that wasn't stated previously.

NAME: Jason LaGuidice
FORUM USERNAME (if applicable): ShadowDrake
TELE#: Leaving out for now, can submit on form
EMAIL: Leaving out for now, can submit on form
DATE: 9/9/19
LOCATION: Muskegon, MI
ESTIMATED ALTITUDE (FT): 600
POSTAL ADDRESS (FOR SHIPPING ONLY):
Zip Code: (required for altitude): 49444
__________________________________________________________
TUNE SERVICE TYPE [DYNO/REMOTE/ONLINE/PCM-SHIPPED]:
---IF DYNO TUNE---
IS VEHICLE BEING DROPPED OFF [Y,N]:
IS VEHICLE DRIVEABLE [Y,N]:
LICENSE PLATE#:
__________________________________________________________
HOW DID YOU HEAR ABOUT EFIDYNOTUNING:
REFERRER:
__________________________________________________________
PRE-TUNE CHECKLIST VERIFIED [Y,N]: Yes
If NO, Verify the Pre-Tune Checklist (linked above) Before Proceeding!
IS VEHICLE 100% READY TO BE TUNED [Y,N]? Yes
LIST ALL DEFICIENCIES/COMMENTS/NOTES BELOW:
Injectors probably too small

VEHICLE YR/MAKE/MODEL: 2004 Mustang GT
VEHICLE WEIGHT: Full (3300)
PCM/ECU CODE: RKN2 / FBFG2
TUNING DEVICE (None,SCT,QH,Tweecer,etc): QH
TUNING SOFTWARE (BE,TunerPro,Caledit,SCT,etc): TunerPro
PRIMARY VEHICLE USE (street,strip,weekend,show,daily,etc): Weekend + track toy
IS THIS YOUR PRIMARY VEHICLE[Y,N]: No
PREFERRED IDLE RPM: 750
DESIRED REV-LIMITER RPM: 6500
BILLET OIL PUMP GEARS [Y,N]: Yes - Melling
THROTTLE BODY SIZE: Stock Whipple Crusher Monoblade
BRAND AND PART #:
__________________________________________________________
TRANSMISSION TYPE [AUTO,MANUAL]: Manual - Ford T56
Gear Ratios: 1st: 2nd: 3rd: 4th: 5th:
REAR WHEEL TIRE SIZE: 275/40-18
REAR GEAR RATIO: 3.55
TQ CONVERTER MAKE & STALL SPEED:
TRANS FLUID TYPE & SPEC:
__________________________________________________________
ENGINE BLOCK SPECS:
STATIC COMPRESSION RATIO: 8.25:1
CUBIC INCH DISPLACEMENT/LITERS: 4.6 - stock bore/stroke
CYLINDER HEAD BRAND, MODEL# & SIZE: C head - 03 cobra
APPROX. HOW MANY MILES ON ENGINE?: 85k
__________________________________________________________
INJECTOR SIZE/BRAND/COLOR: Siemens Deka 80# - blue stripe
INJECTOR PART NUMBER:
INJECTOR PURCHASE PRICE $: $350ish
INJECTOR VENDOR PURCHASED FROM: Don't recall, it's been 6+ years
FUEL SYSTEM TYPE [STOCK,RETURN,RETURNLESS]: Returnless
ADJUSTABLE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR [Y,N]:
AFPR MAKE & MODEL#:
BASE FUEL PRESSURE: 60psi desired
FUEL PUMP QUANTITY & SIZE [LPH]: 3x AEM 50-1200 & KB 40a BAP (set to 0)
FUEL RAIL SPECS: Division X using -8 lines, single inlet
__________________________________________________________
MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR TYPE: 05 GT Slot MAF
MAF TUBE/HOUSING SIZE: 5"
MAF/INLET PIPING SIZE: 5"
MAF CALIBRATION SIZE: N/A
MAF CALIBRATION VEHICLE: 05 GT scaled by pipe size
MAF CALIBRATION CURVE [Ex: GT,COBRA,SC,etc...]: N/A
MAF BLOW-THROUGH or DRAW-THROUGH: draw-through
ADDITIONAL MAF NOTES/COMMENTS: MAF curve supplied is close enough to run the car easily. Haven't done much tweaking to it besides scaling it based on pipe diameter and applying an overall correction percentage
***IF MAF FLOW SHEET IS AVAILABLE, LIST HERE OR ATTACH BELOW***
__________________________________________________________
FUEL TYPE OCTANE & GRADE: E85
FUEL QUALITY [POOR,FAIR,AVG]: Average
METH INJECTION NOZZLE GPH:
METH ACTIVATION TYPE OR PSI:
N2O SHOT / NOZZLE SIZE:
N2O Wet/Dry Shot:
N2O Bottle Warmer Present [Y,N]:
N2O WOT Safety Switch [Y,N]:
__________________________________________________________
POWER ADDER TYPE [Turbo,SC,n2o]: Supercharged
TURBO/SC MAKE/MODEL#: 4.0L Whipple
TURBO SIZE & AR / PULLEY SIZE: 4" pulley - 26ish lbs of boost
#s BOOST MAXIMUM:
BOOST CONTROLLER PRESENT [Y,N]:
BOV/BYPASS LOCATED BEFORE OR AFTER MAF?:
__________________________________________________________
CAM SPECS: Stock 03/04 cobra cams, not degreed. Using stock timing hardware
Intake Lift: Duration: Centerline:
Exhaust Lift: Duration: Centerline:
Rocker Ratio:
Intake Manifold:
CAMSHAFT COMMENTS:

***IF CAM CARD IS AVAILABLE, ATTACH FILE AT BOTTOM***
__________________________________________________________
EXHAUST HEADER TYPE [LONGTUBES/MID/SHORTY]: Longtubes - pacesetter
EXHAUST CROSSOVER TYPE [X,H,Y-PIPE]: Mac prochamber
EXHAUST PIPE SIZE, SPECS, & COMMENTS: 3" collector on header, steps down to 2.5" at midpipe
o2 SENSOR AGE & MILEAGE: Narrowband sensors approx 15k miles
WIDEBAND PRESENT & MODEL#: Innovate LC-1
WIDEBAND WIRED IN TO PCM? [Y,N]: No
***IF YOU HAVE YOUR WIDEBAND TRANSFER, LIST HERE OR ATTACH BELOW
__________________________________________________________
IGNITION COIL TYPE: Stock 03 cobra coils
DISTRIBUTOR TYPE:
SPARK PLUGS BRAND, ITEM #, and GAP: NGK BR7EFS @ .028"
SPARK PLUG WIRES, SIZE, BRAND & AGE:
IGNITION BOX TYPE & AGE:
***BASE IGNITION TIMING MUST BE 10 BTDC ON DISTRIBUTORS***
IS BASE TIMING AT 10 dBTDC [Y,N]?:
__________________________________________________________
ELECTRIC FANS PRESENT [Y,N]: Yes - OE
HIGH AND LOW WIRED TO PCM: Yes - OE
COOLANT THERMOSTAT TEMP: Reische 170 degree
AIR CHARGE TEMP SENSOR LOCATION: IAT2 location
__________________________________________________________
QUICK CHECK LIST:
DOES ENGINE BURN OIL? [Y,N]: Yes, small. Large ring gaps & 80k miles, expected amount
IS FUEL FILTER NEW? [Y,N]: Yes - 2000 miles
ARE SPARK PLUGS NEW? [Y,N]: Yes - 500 miles
CAP AND ROTOR NEW? [Y,N]:
SPARK PLUG WIRES NEW? [Y,N]:
AIR FILTER NEW? [Y,N]: Yes - 500 miles
O2 SENSORS NEW? [Y,N]: Yes - 15k miles
EXHAUST SEALED NO LEAKS? [Y,N]: Yes
IS BASE TIMING AT 10 dBTDC [Y,N]:
FIRING ORDER VERIFIED [Y,N]:
__________________________________________________________
LIST ANY ADDITIONAL VEHICLE DETAILS/COMMENTS/NOTES BELOW:
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ShadowDrake
Premium Member
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:17 pm
Vehicle Information: 2004 Mustang GT
RKN2 / FBFG2
BE + QH
4.6 DOHC - Stock 03 Cobra Heads
8.25:1 CR
80# Siemens Deka Injectors
Slot MAF 5" Tube
T-56
4.0 Whipple
Wbo2-LC1

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby decipha » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:22 pm

you have to scale your injectors regardless since the ecu cannot accept an injector slope value that high. Your fbfg2 tune has the injector clipped.

the only difference betwwen your fbfg2 tune and that fbgi0 tune i posted was that i had the maf slightly higher and the cranking pw twice as large on initial crank

I reduced both otherwise it should run well enough for you to dial it in.

make sure you download the latest fbgi0 in downloads and use the adx included with the fbgi0 xdf otherwise it won't log correctly.
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decipha
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Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby ShadowDrake » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:18 am

Hey decipha,

I'm getting started on this pretty late but I've got all week to get it going.

This file started up! Insanely rich (causing misfire, lower than .60 lambda), but it started. After about 20 seconds of "idle" time it suddenly flips over and the AFR is quite close.

However it seems like the ECU is failing out the MAF and just running off the load w/ failed MAF table. Adjusting the MAF values while it's doing this makes no change whatsoever but changing FN1036A does. Is there any way I can tell if it's failed the MAF and do you know any of the logic behind this failover?

Is it just that the MAF values need to be cut down to like 1/2 of what they are here?
ShadowDrake
Premium Member
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:17 pm
Vehicle Information: 2004 Mustang GT
RKN2 / FBFG2
BE + QH
4.6 DOHC - Stock 03 Cobra Heads
8.25:1 CR
80# Siemens Deka Injectors
Slot MAF 5" Tube
T-56
4.0 Whipple
Wbo2-LC1

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby decipha » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:37 am

why would the maf need to be adjusted if the afr is quite close ?

it would only uae the lwfm table is the maf voltage is out of range or if the low region backflow switch is enabled

otherwise it just sounds like you need to remove some startup enrichment
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decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 19118
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Decipha Ponto
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby ShadowDrake » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:50 am

I was testing with hot starts and was seeing this behavior - but I have a reische 180 thermostat and it's cold here now. ECTs were probably 160-170... which was being enriched. I removed the enrichment in that area but was definitely still seeing the behavior (though it was improved after removing the enrichment).

LOW_TP_SW is Unset
FN052BF is set to 0's
FN052BFLS is set to 1024's

Changing the MAF values wasn't making any effect on my AFR or trims for steady state CL idle. I tried removing 20% just to see if anything was changing and on applying the update w/ emulation mode - absolutely zero change. Which is why I think the ECU has failed the MAF and isn't using its readings.

When I made the same change to the lfwm table I immediately got results in line with what I expected.

Edit: To add some extra info

Car idles at 58-60 MAF counts. MAF_LO_ER is set to 15.
No MIL (I got one for the rear O2 heaters - rear O2's are unplugged). I turned off the switches for rear O2 heaters.
ShadowDrake
Premium Member
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:17 pm
Vehicle Information: 2004 Mustang GT
RKN2 / FBFG2
BE + QH
4.6 DOHC - Stock 03 Cobra Heads
8.25:1 CR
80# Siemens Deka Injectors
Slot MAF 5" Tube
T-56
4.0 Whipple
Wbo2-LC1

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby decipha » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:55 am

theres more than one low maf voltage scalar make sure the other two arent failing the maf
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 19118
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Decipha Ponto
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby ShadowDrake » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:10 am

Do you know off the top of your head what they are? Or what I can ctrl+f for? I've combed through the xdf and can't find anything that looks like it corresponds.
ShadowDrake
Premium Member
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:17 pm
Vehicle Information: 2004 Mustang GT
RKN2 / FBFG2
BE + QH
4.6 DOHC - Stock 03 Cobra Heads
8.25:1 CR
80# Siemens Deka Injectors
Slot MAF 5" Tube
T-56
4.0 Whipple
Wbo2-LC1

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby ShadowDrake » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:12 am

Hey decipha,

I'm going to be moving and never managed to figure this out - just lived with it.

The car overfuels heavily at low loads (idle) while ECT is low and the table is zeroed out. It makes starting the car difficult when temperatures are around 30, and impossible around 0-10. It will crank, fire, then just die.

Additionally I never got the fuel pressure setting to stick at 60 psi. Nothing changed it. This is on FBFG2.

I never got the car running on FBGI0... I could get it to idle and spend time there but it eventually would just completely ignore the MAF transfer function, running off who knows what. I don't have this issue on FBFG2.

In either case, because of a lack of time I'm going to toss you a donation for your tuning time. Nothing has changed about the car since I filled this out, good to go on that?
ShadowDrake
Premium Member
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:17 pm
Vehicle Information: 2004 Mustang GT
RKN2 / FBFG2
BE + QH
4.6 DOHC - Stock 03 Cobra Heads
8.25:1 CR
80# Siemens Deka Injectors
Slot MAF 5" Tube
T-56
4.0 Whipple
Wbo2-LC1

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby decipha » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:18 am

MAF_LO_ER is the main one and all I have currently accessible in the free fbgi0

if its going too rich on cranking then reduce the cranking pw multiplier table at those temps but first make sure the cranking lambda is set to stoich

fuel pressure will be whatever you set in the function, fbfg2 or fbgi0 makes no difference

something must have been off in your tune for it to do that

yeah no prob
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 19118
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Decipha Ponto
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby ShadowDrake » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:30 am

Great thanks, just sent it over.
ShadowDrake
Premium Member
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:17 pm
Vehicle Information: 2004 Mustang GT
RKN2 / FBFG2
BE + QH
4.6 DOHC - Stock 03 Cobra Heads
8.25:1 CR
80# Siemens Deka Injectors
Slot MAF 5" Tube
T-56
4.0 Whipple
Wbo2-LC1

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby decipha » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:21 am

accounts been upgraded
User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 19118
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Decipha Ponto
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD

Re: Convert to FBGI0

Unread postby decipha » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:11 am

User avatar
decipha
Tooner
 
Posts: 19118
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Name: Michael Decipha Ponto
Vehicle Information: Supercoupin' x10
90 (4x 5spds) - Dante, Ruby, Daja, Ava
91 4r70w - Skarlett
92 (2x) 5spd & auto - Bianqa, Andrea
93 auto - Danika
94 5spd Rionda
95 auto Aisha
Vehicle 2 Information: Others:
00 Lincoln LS - Luanda
98 Camaro SS - Bounquisha
02 Harley F-150 - Sasasha
03 Marauder - DyShyKy
00 Explorer 5L - Bernyce
07 GMC 2500HD 6L - Veranafer
06 Chrysler 300 AWD


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