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LPi Support?

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:07 pm
by CausticUrbanCoast
I am looking for some help or pointing in the right direction; not only do I have a manual '97 F350 460 7.5L with an S/D EEC-IV, it has a Vaille liquid propane injection system (LPi), and is more or less "new".

While common as dirt in Australia, most of the North American systems are vaporizing systems. The power density is very different, supposedly similar to a diesel; I am currently looking for the Vaille tuning manual as it seems a bit off.

Does anyone know if Decipha has worked with LPi before? I know he has mentioned the LLBBA strategy for the HHX0, but I can not seem to find any details on the equipment for it or which software.

Seems I rolled in two requests: 1) is there experience with LPi, 2) details/leads on the LLBBA strategy.

Any information or experience would be great.

Re: LPi Support?

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:35 pm
by decipha
no i have not, i have no experience with it

i do not know of any open source defs for it

i would also recommend coverting to maf as you would have far greater fuel control for your specific application

Re: LPi Support?

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:47 pm
by CausticUrbanCoast
Interestingly, I have been musing the Diablosport MAFia.

Disappointing on the LPi stuff.

Can you reccomend where to get the LLBBA (and if it is suitable)? It seems like I will have to run a baseline on both gas and LPi, then see what I have to work with.

Re: LPi Support?

Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:53 am
by decipha
i would ditch speed density for flex fuel vehicles the old ford sd control isnt efficient enough for my standards tk control varying fuel blends

best bet is swap to maf and just dial it in, then when u run lpi dial that in

Re: LPi Support?

Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:23 am
by CausticUrbanCoast
Yeah, just trying to figure out that manual transmission issue. Not sure if there are many Cali trucks in the PNW.

Re: LPi Support?

Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:06 am
by CausticUrbanCoast
Looking at various MAF swap scenarios, its going to run about 3-5 grand unless someone gives me a rare blown manual cali 97 460.

So, until I collect all the parts and tear the engine apart to install the missing timing sensors for MAF, I am looking at running 3 tunes: Stock, Gas (either load or economy), and LPi.
Following in this vein, and reading the Fuel page I notice our common alternate fuels stoichiometric are missing (the efi page is far more specific brand and mix wise though):

Code: Select all
Fuel                   Ratio by mass [6]   Ratio by volume [7]   Percent fuel by mass   
Gasoline                14.7  : 1                 —                          6.8%   
Natural gas             17.2  : 1               9.7 : 1                      5.8%   
Propane (LP)            15.67 : 1              23.9 : 1                      6.45%   
Ethanol                  9    : 1                  —                        11.1%   
Diesel                  14.5  : 1                  —                         6.8%   


As that is paraphrased from Wikipedia, I am going to say those are very general averages.

Shown are both average possibilities for LP: 15.67:1 (injection), 23.9:1 (vapor)
My LPi system (common Australian system) should be somewhere near the 15.67 as it does not decompress and allow the propane to warm up, it injects liquid propane. Common North American propane systems warm up and expand the propane into a vapor mist, so I would guess it would be somewhere between 15 and 24 but would likely depend on delivery orifices and delivery line temperatures for expansion.

With a little more research, I am hoping to find enough information to approximate a proper lambse for MAP (seeing that the truck is S/D) as it would currently be using the settings for 1997 era non-ethanol 85/87 pump gas (it is one or the other depending if it the truck was built in the Canada or the USA respectively). IDEALLY I would find a bin from an Aussi 460 as Ford and Vaille worked together pioneering the LPi system in the Australian market, but I am unaware of any 460's going to Australia, so that is wishful thinking.

Any input or commentary is appreciated.

Re: LPi Support?

Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:40 pm
by jsa
No 460's here as far as I know.

Ford fitted LPG to 6cyl Taxis. I don't know the specs.

Re: LPi Support?

Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:09 pm
by CausticUrbanCoast
Anyone know if there is a way to do the MAF swap on the 460 without tearing the engine in half to install the CPS needed by the Cali 460 ecu? That seems to be the biggest cost.

Re: LPi Support?

Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:05 am
by decipha
just use a mass air ecu with a distributor