EFIDynoTuning Forum

Funny I had that up cuz I was reading on something else about the intake portion :) I see my question about the MAF sensor is answered there off the cuff with "I highly recommend a slot style MAF sensor". I understand that's the even more updated style and I've seen folks say they've used them so this confirms I can use the MAF sensor I want OR I can drop in a slot style that'd include an IAT/MAF combo like you suggest ;)

From what I've learned the key benefit to the slot style I see is it pulling from the "center" (a deeper measurement than say the 1st gen MAF like I have pulling from the edge of the intake about 1/2" in which also reads heat soak from the engine bay so not accurate to true ambient inside the intake pipe. "Center" is ambiguous since that depends on where the depth of the measurement vs. the center of the intake pipe's radius where the MAF is mounted. I figure pulling the measurement further from the intake pipe edge is the more critical goal than "center" but center or close as possible is still a key goal as well.

This is why I want the round port style I mentioned since it pulls deeper as well but a slot is still in consideration too. I'll probably hit up a junk yard and parooze around that way I have real physical dimensions to measure. I'm thinkin the slot style will interrupt flow less than the round/curved style i.e. more laminar flow. I gather the curve vs. the slot would create more pressure/less laminar, albeit at a micro scale. I believe that creates resistance/heat as well to some micro scale and one goal is to not add any additional heat since that is what is being measured. Also they might use more modern/sensitive thermistors (could be good or bad :D ) but maybe not. Things I'll ponder and look into more.

The PMAS HPX-E High flow MAF Decipha suggested (which includes an IAT (same as ACT just new words from Ford in the 90s) looks interesting... The "extended range" bit and the idle resolution seems interesting too. I'll do some more reading up on that, probably will give the PMAS a call :) Fortunately I'm sure this intake will be more than adequate for now as I continue the design for a final version and maybe a PMAS will have a home in it :D I'd call this my v1.0a for now tho ;)

On a side note, I'm printing off all Decipha's dox so I have em in hand to highlight and paper is just easier in ways vs. having all your articles open in tabs (and all saved in PDF) kinda like my Decipha's Tuner Guide Pocket Book :D

I'll do the tables after I retune now I've finally relocated my IAT and built a new intake :D
Question:
Can I use the Motorcraft IAT/MAF 6 wire all-in-one combo sensor say from an 04-09 F150 4.6L Ford Part# YC2F-BA AFLS161 (I believe I don't care about the part # so much either) for the A9L2 magic code? I gather I can since the voltage as I understand is the same but there's so much mis-information about the "MAF calibration", ECM specific Part #s for MAFs (which appear to NOT be true), etc. so I just wanna make sure from your/ya'lls view ;)
I know what I need from the wiring/harness/pinout perspective but beyond that, the voltage is really all that matters (I believe) so I should be good right?

Intake Build Info:
As for the new intake, it's 102mm (4"~) I.D. intercooler pipe with the MAF and ACT sensor mounts I designed and 3d printed. ACT is about 10-20* over ambient now (AZ summer time, so ambient is about 100-110*) and very consistent (while moving, idle obviously will be higher). Just opening the hood vents, I was about 20-30* over ambient. Prior, basically stock for the intake system and the ceramic coated exhaust headers, I was about 50-70* over ambient then wrapping the exhaust below the headers up to the first cat reduced to about 40-60* over ambient. It does raise if I sit at idle but it's still way lower because of the open vents on the hood. The TB is 52mm x 2 inlets so 104mm total and the intake tubes are 55mm I.D. x 2 (minus those "tube shaping coils" they have inside). The original MAF setup was roughly 3" I.D. overall with a 55mm Mustang MAF sensor body choke point in the center.

The Y-Coupler I designed is 104mm I.D. at the large opening with the two 52mm I.D. outlets (104mm minimum volume at any given point in the coupler) that go to the main intake tubes w/ a 22.5* bend at the center of the coupler. My friend is WAY better at CAD than I am (he designs parts for a living) so he's re-designing it for me (and he wants one too) to look more like a real part ;) Next time I'll prob print in a special TPU (Thermal Plastic Urethane) I have called NinjaFlex which is awesome for structure, tear resistance, and heat tolerance. I might even build it with some ABS structure since I can print w/ two materials at a time which would allow a more rigid structure at say the connection ports with ABS or say 75% ABS, 25% TPU with a more flexible portion around say the mid-section using only TPU. TBD.

One thing w/ MAF (ya'll prob know this :D ) is it needs laminar (even/level/not turbulent) air flow to measure accurately. MAF setups usually have a mesh screen to make this happen so I had to make sure I added that which I did. Since the pipe and air filter hide it, it was ok for it to not look pretty but it's nylon screen so it's tough and I used ABS plastic slurry to form the outer ring and basically mold it into the filter and around the pipe. Works very well :)

Tuning Progress Updates:
Since I almost doubled my intake size, my MAF table was WAY off. What was running perfectly fine, won't even start now :D I had to increase the MAF table values and now I'm running at a much lower MAF AD Count across the entire RPM range (expected).

My average MAF AD Counts were about 125-175 for idle w/ the 3" setup and 55mm MAF body choke point. When it's a solid tune, closer to the 125-135 range, and a tune that's decent but def needs refinement we'll say 150-225 average.
My average MAF AD Counts now are about 50-60 so I finally get to use the lower MAF table. I gather this means this will open up the upper portion of the MAF table too since it's not being choked at the upper end. I think a bit over 850 is the highest I've seen so far.

Took me a while to get it to just run cuz I was paranoid about flooding the engine again and it was hard to get a reading on the HEGOs w/ the short run time. I need to make a custom Histogram for the HEGO Voltage now for these hard/fail start situations rather than gamble "Am I rich or lean?" cuz finding out I was rich and now am richer (not financially:*( ) sucks cuz you can flood the engine fast if you're over and recovery seems to usually be pull all spark plugs and air out which even then takes a couple/few hours....

So I used some logic, watched the Dashboard HEGO voltage and saw blips showing .2-.4 and figured w/ the wider air intake I was probably running way lean and upped the values. Finally got it running and then was able to continue tuning the MAF table to get it running properly again.

ECTs are always 178*~ rarely going above 180* even on a hard pull but I haven't done a balls out pull more than say 1/4 mile. I have seen it drop to 174-176* plenty even on 110*+ days on a decent pull so sayin 178* average is true and very consistent ;) I love my Robert Shaw 180* thermostat and FlowKooler Water Pump :D I have replaced the ECT sensor and the new one reads exactly the same plus I have an inline analog temp gauge in the cooling piping and the dash gauge using a separate sensor so 3 separate locations, and they all agree too so it's not mis-info ;) I did modify a couple tables/scalars to accommodate this a while back which did help. The default is 180* ECT for the next "level up" for some fuel/spark/etc. tables ideally I figure for a 190* thermostat. I'm in AZ and I replaced an engine from overheating and 190* is pretty border line here in the summer so I'm happy with my 180* and you won't convince me otherwise ;) So because of this I modified the tables/scalars for 170* instead of 180*. W/ the FN022 scalar, I had to change the -30 to -40 since I reduced the 180 to 170 then the tables it affects like FN1306 ECT values incremented logarithmically but JUST changing the scalar FN022 value 180 to 170 value really made the ECT column look "not good". I did this a couple months ago and it made a noticeable difference performance/feelwise and lookin at the FN1306 table, it makes sense as to why. Also, it doesn't seem to have done anything negatively ;)

Crappy Tuning Detour:
When me and my buddy dropped the block in, we went with "yeah it's cool, you can install the engine with the transmission in the truck still." Two of two engine installs I've done this and now this counts for 2 for 2 that I have to remove the transmission to fix something that f'd up during the install when stabbing the engine/transmission together via the engine hoist/engine. It caused the AOD's front pump seal to leak so it's been leaking ever since I did the install I guess 2 years ago now. It's been a slow drip every so often but with all the fun I've been having now everything else has been squared away, the seal finally said F' it and leaks pretty bad. So I get drop the AOD and t-case, and deal with all that. At least I am VERY familiar with this part since I've pulled the AOD/t-case several times over the years now ;) The lesson I'm taking from this is install the engine WITHOUT the transmission installed, then install the transmission. I have NEVER had issues dropping/installing the ZF5 or AODs so I'm sticking with that if there's a next time ;)

The better you fix one thing, the more another thing breaks.... Good life lessons...

Awesome and Thank You!

Thank You Decipha :) Injectors seem to be proper overall. New sealed Bosch 42lbs only ever used in this engine with Ford/your data. I want to adjust my break point, at least I think it's something I should do in time since around 400 AD counts there's the noticeable shift in fueling I believe you see when your break point occurs and has some room to grow but it's nothing that needs to be done "now"... I figure the injector slopes could be tuned a bit too but the MAF is good enough till I finish the intake and ACT relocation.

So the "Unplugged MAF Tables" Comprehension Test...Let's see how well I do...

VMAFO1 Noisy MAF Patch (FN1036):
So looks like I need to enable the patch to begin with? This will be the first patch I apply so some comfort "Yes click "Apply Patch" and read the rest of my notes in "Parameter Comments", but overall out of the box it will prob work better than without it enabled" :) I gather this is something you added in the space you carved out of the "not so useful" code space?

Enable Extended FN1036B Table:
It's Patched already but I gather this simply allows the table to exist/be populated in the running code otherwise it has no relevance to it actually being used, that's the first Patch mentioned above.

I also reeeed DO NOT MESS WITH VMARPM unless I REALLY know somethin which I know nothing about this except it's set to 16k RPMs by default i.e. unobtainable unless something bad happens and pegs your tacho signal so effectively disabled/safe to enable the patch.

"VMAFO1 (I'm sure that's an "OH/O2/KOEO" not a "ZERO" but fonts and there's nowhere to highlight/copy/paste from to figure it out ) MAF Min Volts:"
I see the default is 30 AD counts so i.e. this would have enabled the FN1036/FN1358 fueling table when I had the MAF disconnected and it ran like shyte because the static AD counts w/ the MAF disconnected was 18 so below 30. So I gather this is where you suggest it might've just ran fine or at least better than w/o?

VMAMAX - is a test function for KOEO so the code reader gets what it expects to see, so just leave it as is.

N_TP_FN1036_HegoErr Histogram / History Table:
I see in this table I want to move this to Fuel_Err_Ego1 since I only have the single/mono O2 sensor for the Z Object. Since this is based on the MAF/AD output, I'm not sure how this table ties in...? Maybe this is the table I'd watch IF I unplugged my MAF or it failed and I had to see how it's doin when the FN1036/FN1358 table is active since it seemed I was still getting O2/HEGO data w/ the MAF unplugged?

N_TP_LOAD_GUFX Histogram / History Table:
This looks like this histogram relates entirely to FN1036B/FN1358 and can ALMOST be copy/pasted from the Histogram to the table? I can certainly edit the table to make that easier but I like the resolution the Histogram has and I can skip the rows as needed. I gather this is the Histogram you're more referring to?

SP**FN1036B - Decipha Inferred Load (FN1358):
I see as w/ the Histogram comment, to tune this table, I'd want to get the relative values from the Histogram and update this table accordingly?
My loads are fairly different as the TP scale grows but I gather that's the point of me tuning this.
If I average across the Histogram TP counts from a current log just to give a rough example I get:
TP AD Count Load Average
0 0.175
20 0.216
40 0.236
60 0.321
80 0.35
100 0.432
120 0.488
140 0.53
160 0.578
180 0.619
200 0.615
250 0.644
300 0.705
350 0.723


That's the TP values from 0-350 populated, I didn't have a higher TP value populated from this log I pulled and not important. The scale in the FN1358 table has say above 1.00 across the entire 300 TP AD count range vs mine is 0.705 average so very different, again using the average across the entire RPM range just for illustrative purposes since the tabular is granular for RPMs.

So I gather to tune this table for say the AD count range for just 350, I enter the table values relative to the given RPMs I got which are the "Running Average" for the "N_TP_LOAD_GUFX" Histogram so for this log example I have:
RPM: 2250 2500 2750 3000 3250 3500 3750
TP: 0.752 0.758 0.730 0.714 0.707 0.700 0.698

So enter those in the respective spots and more or less I'm done or at least much better off than before (assuming this function is enabled/Patched) ?

Did I pass or fail the Comprehension Test? :D

Nice and 100% correct, I hadn't looked up which table it was yet so no I've never dialed this in so Thank You for sharing that and I'm bout to a point where I can do those tables :) Ideally I shouldn't forget to plug the sensor in tho so I didn't mind it running like shit and makin me feel like an idiot and now I know what to expect if I forget again and don't have the laptop/QH ;)

I didn't want to touch any fall back tables yet until I get the MAF dialed in which I have several times, but then I make a major change like the exhaust and get to rinse and repeat. Like now I just opened my hood vent slots and reduced my ACTs by 20-30* average but the MAF re-tune goes WAY faster now too. I have two more major changes left for the intake which is going to 104mm (4") at the smallest point of the intake since I have a 52mm x 2 throttle body (302 truck TB). Currently it's all 3" with a 55mm MAF body choke point that all came with the truck when I bought it way back when.

I have a straight piece of 4" Aluminum pipe for the main intake piece for the MAF sensor and I have to design/3d print it's mount. I designed a Y-connector I just 3d printed to connect the 4" pipe to the 52mm TB tubes. Then I need to build an air box and plenum around the filter for the two hood vents to force air into the air box. The connection tube for the hood vents to the box has a built in ACT so I'll use that to relocate the ACT off the intake manifold finally as well and keep the ACT on the manifold as a plug / backup connection. The air box will be removable so I can just run the filter without the ram air hood vents too so it's all modular. Fun stuff!

I did and it had no smell. I have a fuel pressure gauge on the rail and it holds a good steady PSI and takes hours to bleed off. New Motorcraft FPR when I built this last year and my old FPR died :)
ECM checked out, spark plugs were dirty from when it ran super rich but cleaned those up. SO I load up Dashboard after putting everything "back together"... I saw the IMAF last time at 18 but didn't pay attention to see if it was flipping, I figured that was from surging cuz it does that BUT it does fluctuate w/ a "normal" surge. This time I was less panicky and got a good log set. The IMAF was stuck at 18 the whole time and various stats like RPMs, timing advance, others had this VERY consistent wave....
I disconnected my MAF to verify the pin out for the intake I'm building and I may swap to the newer style MAF connector vs. my 89 Mustang oval style..... I lightly connected it back in cuz no logical reason I can come up with....

"Plug in your MAF sensor you f'in idiot!" :D Plugged it in, she's happy! But hey, at least I did a compression leak down test, learned somethin, and got to set aside some questions like "how is my engine really running in the cylinders?", spark plugs are nicely cleaned up and connections are tightened, oil changed, so it was actually worth all that extra effort and as usual hopefully someone learns somethin from this ;)

Attached are the oil pressure, inline water temp and fuel pressure gauges I have. OP gauge is tee'd in with the OP sensor on the side of the block, and the water temp gauge is inline just after the water pump. I also have a TV pressure gauge up top for the AOD.

Thanks Red! Pulling it directly from the shift shaft it's the same tension as up at the throttle. It's a heavily built AOD that's got about 2,500 miles on it (about 500 more than the engine) and I'm sure the spring is new. It sure has plenty of tension. It was noticeable too when I put in my shift linkage since I had to swap that over since Monster doesn't give the truck linkage for the AOD.

On a side note, somethin went wrong and it's dumpin in fuel and flooded itself. I watched the lambses keep climbin. It's happened a couple times when I pasted my MAF table in wrong so like 200 AD count values go in the 0 AD count column :\ If it doesn't stall out and I can start it, I just put in a proper MAF table and it'll chug back to life and be normal. If not, then I've pulled the spark plugs, let it air out for an hour or two, and then it's good to go. This time (maybe I just didn't pay attention before) the Lambse values kept climbing once it finally hit CL which is struggled to do. I had a f'it moment and set the MAF table to about half so dangerously lean, probably can't even run to see if the Lambses would keep climbing and they did at the same rate. At about 1.20 it's clear it's game over for that round. If a restart doesn't even attempt to fire, it's pull the plug time. Got about 7 experiences w/ this so far.

In fear of messing w/ the MFA/DFSO to run a lean cruise and maybe I really did do something bad and new fancy engine I built myself, I prob should do it; I did a leak down test cuz I had some carbon on the plugs. I also used up about 1.5 quarts in say the last 1,000-1,500 miles which is after the 500 mile break in period (I have no speedometer/odometer cuz I don't want to replace my VDO and shift by RPM/traffic works well enough for the last 20 years plus I live on the edge of town so these are guestimates and likely exaggerated a bit )

So I have 2~% compression loss on all 8 cylinders (not guestimates :D ) so clearly Ford Racing and AFR builds their engines / heads proper which was clear when I got it with every measurement that mattered paint marked inside of the engine and I had to tear down the AFRs to drill out the head bolts to 1/2" so I got the full experience of their precision esp. their valve springs. I guess I did something right building it too and clearly I've done nothing terrible with my tune (yet) :)

Since I like sharing my dumb ass moments so other's can learn from my mistakes and I can actually admit when I f' up... I learned how much torque a very well sealed piston/cylinder and 100 PSI can generate.... Didn't occur to me it could rotate the crank but it sure did. I also left the socket wrench on the crank so it rotated the wrench into the transmission cooler line with enough power to pull the line out of the -AN fitting :D Now I know and the 90% remaining of that battle will be putting that -AN fitting back together cuz I made those lines nicely and hopefully I don't have to replace it (it's the return line so there's one silver lining) ;)

So now to figure out WTF went wrong here but I'll figure it out.
The logs show the PW ( I REALLY LOVE having logs) for the injector stuck open so I figure that's where I get to start if putting it back together doesn't magically fix whatever happened (fuel evap'd from cylinders/plugs if it's "magic"). Not enough info yet to go off of. Just more BS fun adventures in tuning ;)
The highlight was really the note worthy moment to post about ;)

I found why I couldn't push the pedal all the way down ;) It's just always been this way but it's because my USB cable from my laptop in early 2000 was rolled up under the carpet and worked it's way under the pedal at some point. The laptop was my MP3 player before we had MP3 decks and iPods/etc.
:D I moved that and now I can get about 725~ AD counts for TP when I mash the pedal so I adjusted THBP2 to 725 from 750 and now I can engage WOT.

The other restrictive point I have on the throttle is my AOD TV/kickdown cable. The only resolution there is to remove the spring inside the AOD and replace it with a weaker one or heat it up to weaken it. Heating is not an option cuz that could cause it to break one day and that's no bueno inside the AOD. It's not too bad and always been that way, but def about twice the effort or more without it. I've had 3 AODs and they've all been the same so it's just normal.

Goals Accomplished: I took Bonnie out on two extended trails, about 7 hours of low speed trailing with hills, and my laptop did not die during either trip! The POS usually dies when I hit a bump but it's getting replaced and I guess it knows it.

I was able to data log everything and it all went perfectly. My lambses are balanced around 1.00, engine temps are good, and just no issues at all. The big change is the new exhaust specifically the JBA headers that DO NOT leak.
I was able to get to one of the trails which is up hill for several miles at highway speed and I was able to accel a bit but more importantly maintain speed w/o extra effort in 4th gear vs. havin to kick down to 3rd. It's 65 MPH speed limit and most drive 70+ and I was able to maintain 72-73 which is what I usually had w/ 4.10 gears, the 302 HO roller/MAF and 31s/33s. Once I review the logs and tune things I'm sure I can get more out of it like I have with the other hill and freeway tuning I've done. It's not easy tuning the higher MAF AD counts legally on the street and the highway is a bit far from me ;) I prefer to enjoy my tuning fuel costs as well vs. sitting on a dyno roller in a garage even if it's goin to take me longer ;)

Coming back home after the trail, doin 78 dowhill was easy and had to use the brakes/throttle control to keep it reasonable and prudent ;) The rest of the way is up/down hills too and just a smooth ride all over.
I'll continue on and see what else I get but lovin this RPG level up style / unlocking new achievements experience in tuning :D

Awesome I believe the highlighted statement below is what you were nudging me towards that I was tryin to figure out about the HEGO volts in Open Loop which does answer my ? ;) I've read this a few times before but it didn't "matter" (click) at the time just cuz I was solely in CL. This is why I've been re-reading the dox on my own choice too as I keep completing "steps". You can ignore the rest here, it's more for sharing the experience ;)

True story I've only hit WOT OL a few times but that was early in my tuning. Since I'd say 1/4 way thru the MAF tuning journey, I have tried a few times since and I can mash the pedal to the floor but it doesn't go WOT / OL nor does my TP AD counts get close to the WOT count (I know I can adjust that w/ THBP2). I'm floating around 500-550 for the pedal mashed. That's on my list of To Dos now I'm where I can actually tune that bit whereas before it simply didn't matter cuz my MAF table wasn't ready.

Bonus, I know I can KOEO to troubleshoot the throttle and TP/TPS w/ Tuner Pro RT since I can see the TP AD Counts on the dashboard real time and I have a 12ft USB cable so the laptop and me can be in the engine bay ;) I used the TP AD counts to restore my throttle stop screw when I first started messin with that so I could get it back to where it was happiest.


Below excerpt from:
http://www.efidynotuning.com/fuel.htm (Fuel Control)

Open Loop / Closed Loop
In open loop the lambse's do not respond to hego feedback, the lambse calculated from the fuel table(s) and multipliers is what you get since the hegos are cold during startup all ecu's crank into open loop fuel mode, one can logically figure out that since the hegos can only report STOICH = 1.000 lambda, that open loop must be entered at WOT and high loads as well where enrichment is needed (more fuel than stoich) So short, in open loop the hegos are just ignored but they can still give you insight on if your lean or rich by the voltage they are reporting. At WOT the hegos should be reporting 0.800 volts or more indicating your not lean. If you see them drop below that you know your lean unless the hegos heaters aren't getting power.

My bad, that wasn't supposed to post. This was more a draft/notes while I was still gettin more info and didn't know it posted :\ Either way I'm still messin with all this n figuring it out which helps me better understand your writeups as I re-read them too. And yes I will re-read the fuel write up again :)
If I were asked to explain the tuning process in a picture, the attached image is how I would explain it ;)