EFIDynoTuning Forum

The crank position sensor I showed in a previous post was also used on the 4 cylinder 1.9L Escort engines. I was planning on using identical sensors to those used on the Ford Escort 1.9L engine. For the cam position sensor I was going to use the same type as used on the Escort engine but set it up in a new VW style distributor body I found on Amazon for $30. This way I don't need to destroy a good original distributor that was designed to be used with a vacuum advance. I found some pictures of the position tooth that is made with the camshaft and it would not be difficult to make one from steel or iron. I have also considered purchasing a distributor trigger wheel (iron reluctor wheel) for another vehicle and modifying it to work with the distributor shaft, while removing all the extra teeth. There are aftermarket devices setup with a single tooth wheel that use the same dimensions as the VW distributor with a single shaft in the body with the trigger device and sensor already mounted. The only supplier I found that is or was making one for the EEC-IV ignition module is no longer making that type due to a lack of the proper sensor on the market. That supplier was CB Performance. I got the crankshaft position pulley and wheel from them and they also supplied me with the compatible cam sensor information is case the supplied sensor fails. I found the identical sensor on Amazon for $10 versus $40 from CB Performance.

Where do I find the 'definition' for the P2D EEC-IV? By definition do you mean the emissions setup? If this is what you mean, then it was for all states except for California.

Regarding crankshaft and cam position sensors. From additional reading and listening to some Haltech videos about triggers, it appears that the Fords used a 2 wire 'reluctor' sensor and I am not sure if the cam position sensor is or was a Hall effect or a reluctor sensor. I understand too that the 2 wire sensors do not create as clean a wave form like the Hall Effect sensors produce, but the reluctor sensors will operate successfully at much higher temperatures. The sensor position for the crankshaft position sensor is located low on the right hand side just behind the lower cover for the crankshaft pulley. Will the Ford EEC-IV computer be able to use a Hall Effect output for either the crankshaft or cam shaft position sensors? If not I will have to find a sensor that fits the physical location as well as the proper signal for the particular sensor that was originally used.
What triggering signal types does the EEC-V accept?
I could include a picture of the crank sensor location but I don't see any way to attach a picture. Any how it is not located in an air stream created by the pulley or the generator/alternator drive belt.

Do you have a list of what the different strategies are and a pinout list or diagram for the P2D?

When I purchased the P2D, it was for cars or engines that were to meet the Federal emission requirements in all states but California, and I believe it was to be used on naturally aspirated engines. It was designed to be used with MAF and SFI (ESFI). I expect that the pinout would be the same for a number of engines that were used in the Escort but not any of the Nissan or Mazda electronic systems in the 1991 to 1993 years of production. This computer may have had a different strategy series when it was originally made and the information from Cardone indicated it was checked and repaired as necessary and reprogrammed. That makes me wonder if the P2D is the "after reprogramming" designation. I have seen lists of the strategy numbers used and P2D is not in any list I have seen.

Do you have any clues or information as to what a P2D is in comparison to other 1.9L 4-cyliner Ford CVH engine computers?

I answered my previous question regarding the cam sensor trigger. There is an extra lobe on the camshaft that is simply a trigger for the sensor. The lobe is much smaller in thickness than the lobes that drive the followers and looks much like the lobes found on flat head engine cams from the 1940s through the late 1950s when the engines were phased out and replaced with OHVs.

The two VW FI suppliers I know about that are in America both had cam position synchronizers but neither is offering any now. I purchased a new manufactured distributor for @$30 that I am going to use to make a cam position device using the same kind of sensor that is used with most of the crankshaft sensors. The Dub Shop uses a VSS Hall effect sensor (Ford Probe or Mazda Miata) that is very short and I am going to use the same type in the body of the new distributor and a single tooth over the distributor cam (starting with a multiple tooth reluctor). This will produce a signal that the EEC-IV can use. The signal should be identical to the sensor used on the 1.9L engine.

Will I get the same signal for the cam position if I use a magnetic pickup?

Thanks for your insights

Paul Villforth

What do you mean by "strategy"?

Can you briefly explain your last statement that a cam sensor should be installed for SEFI but it is not required? I saw in the Probst Ford Fuel Injection book that there is a cam sensor on the Escort 1.9L 4-cylinder but there is not much of any explanation how it functions i.e. what it does that the crankshaft position sensor cannot do.
I have seen that statement about making the mistake purchasing the EEC-IV other places. The reason I purchased the EEC-IV instead of the fifth version is that I could not find the type of information that is in the Probst book on the EEC-V. I also saw that the later EEC moved the EDIS-4, -6 and -8 into the computer case. Connector went from 60 pins to 104 pins.
Is the barometric pressure sensor inside the EEC-IV computer case? I read in the Probst book that it was moved to the computer housing. I have also found out that I could have used the EEC for a V-8 engine instead of the one for the 4-cylinder. I thought that it might turn out that I could use either the 4 cylinder or the 8 cylinder EEC.
Where can I find technical reading material on either computer?
Is there any information on the P2D programming that you can share or where I can find the information? The P2D cost me $85 including the shipping.
I appreciate your input.

Yes, an inline 4 cylinder engine doesn't have banks but the layout of a boxer engine has 2 cylinders on the right side and 2 cylinders on the left. They do resemble banks as in a 'V' or 'W' configuration.
I have read instructions for arranging the spark/coil wires that would be used with wasted spark utilizing the EIDS module on the VW 4-cylinder boxer engine so I understand how rearranging the pins could create a new firing order that the ECU would not know about.
I have an article about rearranging the pins to effectively change the firing order if you are using an ECU that was originally used on a Ford HO V-8 and the concern there is the readings of the Heated Oxygen Sensors on the right versus the left bank where the pins from the normal V-8 firing order were rearranged and the statement was that doing this will create a cascading effect of lowering the fuel to the cylinders with the rearranged pins. There is no explanation how this can occur, though.
Here is the link to the argument for not changing the pins. I am not saying you are wrong but if you haven't seen this you might find it interesting. This addresses a V-8 engine configuration. In my case if I used only one HEGO where the exhaust from all cylinders comes together maybe I will not have this problem.
http://www.grandmarq.net/oldfuelinjection/page92.html
How about I cut and paste it here.

"Injector Firing Order

There are 2 ways to "correctly" fix a computers' mismatched firing order:
1. The best option is to change to a HO camshaft to match the computer. (not applicable)
2. Or you can reprogram the computer to match the cam firing order. (reprogramming with a chip)

"Firing order does not effect spark at the plugs because that is still determined by what order you put the plug wires on the distributor cap. But if you have a sequential fire fuel injection computer, then the computer program opens the injectors in the same order as the camshaft timing. This can cause issues when running a “High-Output” computer with an older camshaft. If you leave the injectors in the HO order you might notice a slight effect on idle quality. There are no effects once the engine speed picks up because the injectors open so fast."

"Other people with mismatched computers swap the injector pins at the computer plug. This causes more problems than it solves."

"An example of how the computer deals with mixed up injectors:
1. The R O2 sensor sends a rich signal to the computer.
2. The computer will then shorten the pulse width to Right side of the engine. But two of those injectors have been MOVED to the Left side of the engine!
3. Because 2 of the injectors that have been directed to minimize the injector pulse are now on the other side of the engine, this causes the left side of the engine to run lean.
4. So now the L O2 will send the lean signal to the computer.
5. The computer will then lengthen the pulse width to Left side of the engine. But two of those injectors have been MOVED to the Right side of the engine!
6. So now the R O2 sends another rich signal to the computer.
7. Cycle repeats, each time getting worse."

"You end up with 1, 2, 5 & 7 running 25% rich, and 3, 4, 6 & 8 running 25% lean!
Therefore it is strongly discouraged to mix around the fuel injectors." (See V-8 GIF illustration)

The VW firing order is 1-4-3-2 and the Ford is 1-3-4-2. Would it be better to move the pins around or modify the programming? Will I still need a cam timing device for the sequential injection? There are ones available for the VW. I am checking on a vehicle speed sensor. I may adapt one from an ABS equipped vehicle and put it on one of the transmission drive shafts constant velocity joints at the transmission. Please supply advise.


Some additional information. My EEC-IV is a P2D I bought from RockAuto/Cardone 78-5144 for a '92 Ford Escort 1.9L SOHC 4-cylinder engine, MAF SEFI. I am using most all of the Ford sensor except those that Volkswagen never had on this engine such as EGR and PCV. I have also read thorough all of the information that you have posted online. I am in the process of replacing motor transmission mounts since they are 50 years old. I think I have all the sensors I need except for the throttle body, intake air temp, idle air solenoid, throttle position sensor. I am working out whether to make my manifolds with injector bungs or to purchase some that were used on the Mexican Beetles ($$$$). In the past I have always constructed my own modifications and since I need the intake manifold I was going to make it and the portions that connect to the head and weld on injector bungs. Initially I will be using the Escort 19#/hr. injectors. I will be increase the VW engine to 2.1L with increased CR of 8.5:1 with larger bore and stroke. Maximum RPM will be 5500. I am not going racing. I want fuel injection and distributorless ignition for drivability primarily. Both will be advantageous for street use too. I also have the Power Module. I don't yet have a diagram of the guts but I assume that the sensor voltage regulator is a zenier diode to clamp the voltage at 5V. I have a wiring loom for an Escort, a new EDIS along with the proper 12 pin connector and some of the wires. Thank you!

It all sounds just dandy until someone breaks into the encryption and shuts all Ford motor vehicles down all over North America or does something much worse to the Ford integrated electrical network. The Federal EPA needs to be defunded. Every state in America has an EPA that is also responsible for doing economic impact statements before any rules take effect. The Federal EPA has no such requirements.
That balloon from China could have had an EMP device inside it and none of us would be having this conversation now and Ford's entire computer system would be in ruins now. EMP bursts are why the B-52s still have vacuum tubes in it's critical communications systems because they are unaffected by an Electro-Magnetic Pulse.

This is a great chance to write letters to the US Congress and get them to take the decision making away from the EPA. This is another example of a government entity writing laws when they don't have the authority to do so; forcing others to do what they wish they could do. If yo are in the tuning industry complain to your representatives.

I joined this forum hoping I could get a solution to my problem of changing the firing order that is built into the Ford EEC-IV that I bought and that I will use to operate my '72 VW Super Beetle.
I was looking for some fuel injection ideas when I came across a discussion where the EDIS module was used in conjunction with a Megasquirt module to get rid of the distributor. I got to thinking after looking at the cost of the Megasquirt that maybe the Ford EEC-IV could be adapted to another 4 cylinder engine. If the EEC got the correct inputs it wouldn't know whether it was hooked up to an Escort 1.9L or a VW 1.6L soon to be a 2.1L. So I began a hunt for literature. I found Charles Probst's book and bought it. I couldn't find anything for the fifth version of the EEC that had as much information as Probst's book. I did find out that the EDIS module had been incorporated in the -V version but that was all and I needed to know more. I also read that it could be reflashed, i.e. essentially reprogrammed.
I figured that the Ford unit would be the way to go and I could learn a load of useful information in the process. If I had only known about the Ford system I could have used it to fuel inject my 1951 Studebaker Champion when I implanted it with a turbocharged Studebaker 259 V-8 with a pressurized carburetor. Fuel injection would have solved a whole lot of problems and would have been easier to set up when the inlet was pressurized.
So Mr. Michael Decipha Ponthieux, how can I solve the firing order problem to get sequential fuel injection? Is it really as simple as rearranging the pins to match my engines firing order? Changing the pins will not create a lean condition on one "bank" when compared to the opposite bank? Air cooled engines do not like lean conditions; pistons can melt easily and the aluminum cylinder heads can crack if there is any preignition with lean burning. My engine is flat but it is similar to a Ford V-4 industrial engine that was used in the Capri and the Saab 96 in the 1970s.